Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    I get the point of the OP. The JWs profess to be christian and share many of the same basic beliefs of most other christians.

    Furthermore, since there are thousands of different denominations of christianity and they all have different interpretations of the bible it's pointless quibbling over whether or not they are practicing the true version of christianity since there is no way for anyone to prove whose version of christianity is the correct one.

    When a person tells me they are a Muslim, do I challenge their claim based on whether they are Sunni or Shiite? No. I take them at their word. Whether or not they are living up to all the requirements of Islam is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is that they believe the Quran and believe in Mohammed.

    Similarly, a person who genuinely professes to follow christ and believes in the Bible is a Christian. Whether or not they are a fully approved Christian as respects the details of their beliefs and lifestyle is irrelevant. There's really no point arguing based on the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    Just explaining my comment made earlier in the thread.

    In my opinion, I think of the parable of the of the rich man and Lazarus. When we die could answer the question

    As a witness I thought that those who serve the triune God die and expect to go to heaven but our hope was that we would not die of old age but live on into the thousand year reign of Christ surviving Armageddon. Our sacred service to our God I thought was primarily the preaching of the 'Good News' (Matthew 24:14) In Hebrews 10:23 "Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering," (NWT) For me and my parents that hope was that we would survive the great tribulation and Armageddon and live on into the righteous conditions after these events. I believe that the first Watchtower publication that my parents studied Look I am making all things new makes this clear see the thread Another generation... (Im not able to link to it)

    Our worship our sacred service in connection with God's eternal purpose would mean our salvation in judgement day. However my father lived his life as a Jehovah's Witness and died in his 80's longer than the national average I believe, he was active in the preaching and teaching and had served as an elder and pioneered at times. His older brother died at about the same time, he wasn't a witness. My understanding is that both of these have the hope of being included in the general resurrection. Which would lead one to conclude that my father's hope that he made and held 'fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering' was a false hope. Which in my opinion would then bring into question his sacred service, his worship of the one God and not the triune God. Which reminds me of 1 Corinthians 15:19 'If in this life only we have hoped in Christ we are of all men, most to be pitied' In the Watchtower publication "Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress At Hand" commenting on this verse on page 29 it says.

    "After all that we have gone through since 1914, our generation would be, of all generations the "most to be pitied".Think of it, though! Worthy ones of this generation of mankind will be saved alive out of the rest of this world distress so as to survive the worst of it and enter into God's Messianic new system of things and not need a resurrection from the dead to life on earth! This is a valid hope well founded on what was said by Jesus Christ..."

    When the apostle wrote this he was talking of the resurrection of Christ which was good news that he preached about and what it meant.

    So having the evidence in my life of my father's public declaration of his hope and how it turned out I would question his religion as being Christian in my opinion.

    However I agree that it is a matter of perspective.

  • jwstudy
    jwstudy

    English is not my mother language, So I checked the definition of "Christian" in dictionaries.

    I think Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian both in Britain and in America.

    If you say "JW are not based on the teaching of Jesus Christ because Jesus never teach 1914 and ..".

    The same is true of "Catholic are not Christian because Jesus never teach purgatory ...".

    Definitions from Cambridge Dictionary

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/christian?q=Christian

    "Christian" in British English

    1. of or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ:

    2. used to describe a person or action that is good, kind, helpful, etc.

    "Christian" in American English

    1. a person who follows or belongs to a religion based on the worship of one God and the teachings of Jesus Christ as described in the Bible:

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Just thought I’d better clear up two points in this discussion:

    1. JWs aren’t Christians because they follow the GB, not Christ.

    Nonsense. JWs follow the GB or Faithful Slave because Christ said they should. If Jesus hadn’t spoken about obeying the Faithful Slave, there would be none of this 'obey the GB' crap.

    2. JWs aren’t Christians because nearly all don’t take the bread and wine.

    Nonsense. JWs believe in two types of Christians – those having an earthly hope and those having a heavenly hope. They believe this because it’s their understanding of Christ’s words regarding the ‘little flock’ and ‘other sheep’. If Jesus hadn’t said those things, all JWs would probably believe in a heavenly hope.

    There’s no point arguing the JWs are misguided and what Jesus actually meant was … because, assuming Jesus existed and said those things, we’ll never know what he was babbling on about.

    You’re welcome.

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups

    The ideology of progressive Christians, the ones that accept women in leadership roles and accept homosexuality is less evil than the ideology of fundamentalist Christians.

    The label Christian is just that, a label, the definition of which changes with ideology.

    Whatever flavor of supernatural belief you accept, it's on you to own the baggage that comes with it.

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    Very simple, Jehovah Witnesses are not born again therefore they are not Christians.

    Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

  • blondie
    blondie

    Very good response, Island Man. Hit on the points I was thinking and well put.

    Island Man

    I get the point of the OP. The JWs profess to be christian and share many of the same basic beliefs of most other christians.

    Furthermore, since there are thousands of different denominations of christianity and they all have different interpretations of the bible it's pointless quibbling over whether or not they are practicing the true version of christianity since there is no way for anyone to prove whose version of christianity is the correct one.

    When a person tells me they are a Muslim, do I challenge their claim based on whether they are Sunni or Shiite? No. I take them at their word. Whether or not they are living up to all the requirements of Islam is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is that they believe the Quran and believe in Mohammed.

    Similarly, a person who genuinely professes to follow christ and believes in the Bible is a Christian. Whether or not they are a fully approved Christian as respects the details of their beliefs and lifestyle is irrelevant. There's really no point arguing based on the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.

  • Simon
    Simon

    A way to tell if any religious group really sees themselves as like another, and not just arguing over their particular branding / marketing variation:

    suggest banning the other group

    Suddenly, they will see all the similarities they share and object to the idea because they know, deep down, that they are fundamentally the same.

    It's like arguing whether McDonalds or Burger King make fast food - of course they do, they just have a slightly different menu and different procedure manuals but fundamentally serve up very similar food.

  • OutsiderLookingIn
    OutsiderLookingIn
    Thanks for that, Vanderhoven and Cofty, for that list. I've never been a JW and now being familiar with the beliefs, I would not characterize JW beliefs as Christian. Some negate the Nicean Creed as a standard. Interesting, since at the same time, it's admitted that there are 40,000 denominations that all seem in general agreement with it--we can barely get 40 people to agree on anything. (As an aside, I've attended Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and non-denominational services and no one is trying to establish itself as "the one true religion" to the exclusion of all others, such that going to another church would be seen as losing salvation or leaving Jehovah/Jesus).

    All of that said, telling someone they're not Christian is not something I would ever say to a JW or anyone. It's a complete nonstarter (as shown by this OP) and only serves to insult and put someone on the defensive. Then there's the fact that Christian is euphemistically meant to refer to someone who is kind or compassionate and that some refer to themselves as Christian because they were born into a family that went to church and is generally familiar with Christian beliefs. But according to the Bible, no one is born a Christian. You must be born again (John 3:5). In addition, Acts 11:26 is the first recorded mention of the term Christian, where the disciples received that name at Antioch, because they were preaching the Lord Jesus (v. 20) and a great number believed and turned to the Lord (v. 21). It doesn't matter what we call ourselves or how we characterize others. Jesus knows His own. As humans, the best we can do is observe their lives--it's by their fruit that we will know them (Matthew 7:20).
  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    I'd like to second Blondie's praise of Island Mans post and also LUHE. Their comments are worth a reread.

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