Fed up with Prince? try: Un petit blog de France

by Half banana 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    I have just spent ten days working in France, I arrived late on Friday night and the first thing Saturday morning two visitors ominously strolled into my garden.

    I was offered the flimsy Awake which I opened and was immediately struck with a very false image. The article gave the feel that the magazine was scientifically credible. It targeted young people; those who would recognise that an unduly cheerful and very young scientist peering down a microscope was what JW religion is all about. What deception! I struggled for half an hour in my less than perfect French and the couple wisely suggested they could send round someone who speaks English.

    Early the next morning two enthusiastic JW men about fifty years old arrived who indeed spoke good English. I was not going to let their visit pass without some hard hitting exchanges. Now my old farmhouse is built from granite and I have got used to cutting this material to make alterations. To get a purchase on a granite surface you need to send shock waves into the stone with heavy hammer blows with the chisel at a steep angle to get started, then you progressively lower the angle and get the granite to flake off. With this as a metaphor, I politely but firmly approached the conversation.

    I told them from the start that I was not a believer in the Bible because it was unscientific (being annoyed at the misleading impression the Awake had made) but that I would be prepared to listen to their argument. I asked, “Why should I believe the Bible?” The reply was feeble, just the old chestnut that the Bible recognised the sphere of the Earth. Hardly a reason to believe in the Bible and not impressive since the NWT only refers to the “circle of the Earth”, it could have been flat, and that Eratosthenes back in the Classical world already showed how to measure fairly accurately the circumference of the globe on which we live.

    “So you believe in Adam and Eve?” “Yes”. “And Noah’s flood? “ “Yes.” These were the big hammer blows because I knew they could not support the ideas with evidence and I explained that I have for many years worked on archaeological sites and I am familiar with the relevant stratigraphy of the period in question.

    “A global flood would leave evidence... and there - is - none - at - all.” I said.

    So bamboozled and corrupted is the JW mindset that they imagine that centuries of careful recording and measuring by multitudes of scientists can be dismissed with an off-hand comment as long as it comes from the Bible. Earth sciences, archaeology and the continuous run of the written narrative of history do not allow for a global flood in the Biblical timescale. “The flood is a myth”, I said. “A myth is a story with a backbone which keeps an idea in shape even when re-told over time and geographical distance; but it is not a factual thing.” They went off on a tangent of backbones and skeletons but I drew them back to my argument.

    “And what about Adam and Eve, where’s the evidence? “ I said. No evidence was offered. The conversation by the way was friendly and not hostile on either side but clearly I was leading the train of thoughts and they were listening and not preaching. “As it happens,” I said,” this local area of northern France contains a vast  amount of evidence for two very long periods of Neanderthal occupation. In point of fact at one dig nearby, about 2000 Neanderthal artifacts turned up in one cubic meter of excavation. And yet Neanderthals moved out from here around sixty thousand years back and became extinct about forty thousand years ago!” I pointed out that If Adam and Eve were created by God how did Neanderthals get in on the act since outside of Africa we all carry a small percentage of their genes in us?

    For the moment they actually became silent, thinking through the consequences; they had no answer. The slightly older man finally said in defence that he was not ashamed but proud to declare his belief in creation and in Adam and Eve. “Yes I think pride in one’s culture is normal” I said, “but believing in ideas with evidence to the contrary makes no sense for anyone...and that’s why JWs are going in reverse, where the rest of the world is going forward in knowledge”.

    Therefore, they could not tempt me with their information.”How can JWs teach anything when they do not put up evidence first?” They have no credibility. I had to admit to them that I had been the one doing the preaching but stressed that JWs seem nice people yet sadly, although adult, still believe in childish fairy tales!

    I’m sure they were not convinced (a JW never wants to escape from the mutual comfort blanket supplied by his religious club) and also because it takes time, a lot of reflection and evidence to learn TTATT. The JW sense of conviction appears to be hard as granite but ultimately it does yield to well directed blows. We left the confrontation amicably but I think they were aware they had some serious thinking to do.

  • alanv

    Good account. They just do not have answers to people these days.

    I just had two JW women to the door. So funny. They started off very politely. Then I told them I used to be a witness, and they asked if I was disfellowshipped. I told them I just walked away from the religion when I found out it had misled for me years. They asked me how, and I brought up the last days. They started the normal JW line about how things have never been so bad. So I responded telling them that actually if they check, they will find that we are living in one of the best times in human history, and gave them some examples, one being the relative world peace since the end of world war two.
    Immediately they replied with the scripture that says about peace and security just before the end.
    So we went from the worst time in history to we are living at a time when there is relative peace and security on the earth.
    I laughed and pointed out they cant have it both ways. With that they decided it was time to go, and even when I said they should be willing to defend their faith, they couldn't get away from me fast enough.

  • jaydee

    The slightly older man finally said in defence that he was not ashamed but proud to declare his belief in creation and in Adam and Eve

    .......Proverbs 16:18.......anyone.....???

  • Finkelstein

    It becomes something ironic that the WTS. never teaches people the actual truth about the writings set in the bible.

    Noah's flood for example was just one of many fictional stories told by the ancient Hebrews to create power and relevance to their select envisioned god. Other ancient civilizations told many stories concerning their gods as well under this same underlining intent. How do we know these stories are inherently fictional ? because now we have the investigative science and knowledge to show they were . 

    Human ignorance is an undeniably and indisputable fact in are own inherent historical existence.

    Religionist are never openly in agreement toward that acceptance through intellectual honesty.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    Isaiah had a word for sphere (Isaiah 22:18) but instead decided to describe the world as being flat. It's almost like the Bible was written by iron age men who had no understanding of their world. Weird.
  • Phizzy

    Well done H B !

    It is a conversation they will not be able to forget, though they will try to shove it to the back of their minds. Eventually Cognitive Dissonance becomes so uncomfortable that something has to give.

    Good work !

  • George One Time
    George One Time
    As a witness, I used to have conversations like that. Of course I always tried to defend my faith. It was the truth after all, wasn't it. But slowly these conversations added up, and these helped me to see ttatt eventually.

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