What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

by Village Idiot 66 Replies latest social current

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  Saintbertholdt

  Rent in a moderate rent area (Not too poor and not too rich) + Basic food costs times the number of dependents (No eating out on a regular basis) + Car mileage and car insurance expenses for driving to and from work and supermarket + Utility and Internet bills + 20% for unforeseen circumstances which always occur.

  That sounds a bit like an average wage and not a minimum wage.

  For a single provider or a family of two adult workers?

  How many dependents? Isn't one straying into the domain of social engineering?
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  Village Idiot

  "But economists argue that labors original idea has become irrelevant. They point to the natural decline of trade unions in the 20th century as the indicator that businesses have met workers expectations to a large extent."

  There are less trade unions because there is less trade i.e. industry. The retail establishment (service sector) has become the dominant force in the economies of this nation. If they don't have unions like the UFCW that is because they haven't organized for one so far not because they don't need one.

  "So what about the capitalist argument: The market will bare."

  It is not an abstraction like "the market" but rather the marketeers, the corporate elite, who decide.
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  Saintbertholdt

  ...If they don't have unions like the UFCW that is because they haven't organized for one so far not because they don't need one.

  Yeah sort of exactly: If injustice is rampant in labor, human beings will organize to counter it. The argument being the system seems to be working.

  It is not an abstraction like "the market" but rather the marketeers, the corporate elite, who decide.

  Lets just be clear: 90% of US companies have less than 19 employees.

  Also 50% of all employment in the US is by small and medium businesses.

  
  
  
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  @Saintbertholdt - I believe in the idea for a minimum wage to be a safety net, in order to save people from poverty. I'm not sure about 'a living wage'.

  So what about the capitalist argument: The market will bare - I'm ignorant of this. Please explain, using monosyllabic words and pictures ...

  One more thing, and I realize I might offend a few people:

  generally speaking, I don't believe people should expect the state to pay for their children, e.g. if a husband gets fired from his job, he should not be allowed to add to his brood unless he can afford to do so.

  Single mothers shouldn't be paid by the state to squeeze out a football team, either.
• 

  Village Idiot

  Saintbertholdt: "That sounds a bit like an average wage and not a minimum wage."

  An "average" wage would be a middle class wage not lower class. I'm talking about a lower middle class wage for those who are now the working poor.
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  Saintbertholdt

  So what about the capitalist argument: The market will bare - I'm ignorant of this. Please explain, using monosyllabic words and pictures ...

  Ok ok... in other words supply and demand.

  I don't believe people should expect the state to pay for their children, e.g. if a husband gets fired from his job, he should not be allowed to add to his brood unless he can afford to do so.

  How do you discourage him? Taxation? Vasectomy? :)

  
  
  

  
  
• 

  Village Idiot

  "Yeah sort of exactly: If injustice is rampant in labor, human beings will organize to counter it."

  Injustice is rampant in labor and if there are no unions it's because union organizing has been squashed by the Walmarts and Kmarts of this nation. Workers who try to organize for labor in those establishments get blacklisted and booted by their employers.
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  I'm talking about a lower middle class wage for those who are now the working poor.

  The problem being as follows: Is the wage meant for a single person, or should two adults combined be able to afford your proposed lifestyle. What about children? How many do you want the family to be able to afford? 2,3,1 or zero?

  Are you proposing a multi tiered minimum wage?
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  LoveUniHateExams

  How do you discourage him? Taxation? Vasectomy? - no. If workshy fathers and single mothers choose to have more children, knowing that they cannot afford this, you then arrest them for non-payment of bills. If they're foreign-born, you deport them.

  It seems that, in the UK at least, it's only the middle classes that sit down and work out if they can afford to have more kids.

  *just off to find a nice place to hide*
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Injustice is rampant in labor and if there are no unions it's because union organizing has been squashed by the Walmarts and Kmarts of this nation. Workers who try to organize for labor in those establishments get blacklisted and booted by their employers.

  Remember this exactly what happened in England in the 19th century in the mining industry. When conditions deteriorated beyond the believable, the unions came into existence irrespective of the mining magnates bullying tactics.