Would you care to explain this discrepancy between your doctrine and the Holy Scripture?

Pribeagul

Citing from https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-the-holy-spirit/ :

"The holy spirit is not a person

By referring to God’s spirit as his “hands,” “fingers,” or “breath,” the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a person. (Exodus 15:8, 10) A craftsman’s hands cannot function independent of his mind and body; likewise, God’s holy spirit operates only as he directs it. (Luke 11:13) The Bible also compares God’s spirit to water and associates it with such things as faith and knowledge. These comparisons all point to the impersonal nature of the holy spirit.—Isaiah 44:3; Acts 6:5; 2 Corinthians 6:6.

The Bible gives the names of Jehovah God and of his Son, Jesus Christ; yet, nowhere does it name the holy spirit. (Isaiah 42:8; Luke 1:31) When the Christian martyr Stephen was given a miraculous heavenly vision, he saw only two persons, not three. The Bible says: “He, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” (Acts 7:55) The holy spirit was God’s power in action, enabling Stephen to see the vision.
Misconceptions about the holy spirit

Misconception: The “Holy Ghost,” or holy spirit, is a person and is part of the Trinity, as stated at 1 John 5:7, 8 in the King James version of the Bible.

[...]"

However the Scripture leaves no ambiguity regarding this matter, whichever misconceptions may arise out of inaccurate translations.

"11 I baptise you in water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I, and I am not fit to carry his sandals; he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

12 His winnowing-fan is in his hand; he will clear his threshing-floor and gather his wheat into his barn; but the chaff he will burn in a fire that will never go out.'

13 Then Jesus appeared: he came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptised by John.

14 John tried to dissuade him, with the words, 'It is I who need baptism from you, and yet you come to me!'

15 But Jesus replied, 'Leave it like this for the time being; it is fitting that we should, in this way, do all that uprightness demands.' Then John gave in to him.

16 And when Jesus had been baptised he at once came up from the water, and suddenly the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming down on him.

17 And suddenly there was a voice from heaven, 'This is my Son, the Beloved; my favour rests on him.'"

How would you interpret the 16th verse otherwise considering the Father was also present? There is also a very dire warning:

"28 'In truth I tell you, all human sins will be forgiven, and all the blasphemies ever uttered;

29 but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin.'

30 This was because they were saying, 'There is an unclean spirit in him.'"

What prompted the Jehovah's Witnesses which was founded less than 150 years ago to disregard the entire history of Christianity which respected the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-rgQve74BI

cofty

Hi Pribeagul.

You will find few if any JWs in this forum. Many of us are ex-JWs who got over all religious superstitions a long time ago.

The trinity is a post-biblical construct.

Please explain and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing heresy.

Pribeagul

Is that so? Well, at least I posted in a relevant forum, perhaps you can pose this question to relatives/acquaintances. I hope you don't mind if I refrain doing so as I consider it disrespectful to ask me a question before you answer mine. Actually you did, claiming it is a post-biblical construct but I already attempted to refute that notion with my post. At the Baptism of Jesus there are present the Holy Spirit "descending like a dove and coming down on him" and the Father watching from the skies.

cofty

perhaps you can pose this question to relatives/acquaintances

JWs are not allowed to talk to ex-JWs so that's not going to happen.

At the Baptism of Jesus there is present the Holy Spirit "descending like a dove and coming down on him" and the Father watching from the skies

Which in no way explains of supports the trinity which is a post-biblical construct.

Please explain and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing heresy.

Pribeagul

Why do you insist in that approach if it has already been explained: http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/dogma/faith.html

Let's take it this way, Jehovah's Witnesses claim that the Holy Spirit lacks individuality and is solely a manifestation of the Father, do you agree with that?

JeffT

What prompted the Jehovah's Witnesses which was founded less than 150 years ago to disregard the entire history of Christianity which respected the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity?

Charles Taze Russell, who started the religion, thought he was smarter than everybody else. Probably everybody here will tell you he wasn't.

punkofnice

Welcome P,

you will not recieve any answer from any JW. If any are here, they only lurk and do not communicate because they fear their god will kill them at armageddon(tm) if they do...or worse still they'll be ratted out by one of their own and reported to the elders.

I am an ex-JW that no longer believes in magic men in the sky who refuse to talk back when you pray, who will torture you (lovingly), if you don't worship them (sounds like a psycho to me). How can anyone still believe in god after being a JW?

It's all just a big delusion.

What a person believes is mostly based on their location and the era they were born. Hence ancient Greeks believed in their rack of gods. Vikings believed in Thor and Odin. In Pakistan they are mainly in a Muslim cult. The west are mainly so called Christian.

The first step is to actually study the history of the Bible to see if it's genuine, rather than say it is because that's what a person wants to believe. Faith is a comfort to the desparate.

Joe Grundy

"The first step is to actually study the history of the Bible to see if it's genuine, rather than say it is because that's what a person wants to believe."

I never was a JW.

I second his comment. Context is all-important. Before you start interpreting/dissembling/investigating the words, first look at who/when/why and the context in which it was written.

Re. the OT - this is well worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5RfScpEcZ8

Re. the NT - have a look at Bart Ehrman's site or any of his lectures on youtube. (He also has a very good y/t on the origin of the KJ Bible).

punkofnice

Hi, Joe, how are you?

Bart Ehrman...interesting writings from him.

Would you care to explain this discrepancy between your doctrine and the Holy Scripture?

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