Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley (page 6)

jambon1

Yea. Nature is so wonderful and reflects the personality of the loving creator god.

Righto then.

😦

konceptual99

QB, I am happy to respect someone's belief in intelligent design but not ignorant statements about theories coupled with unilateral definitions of creationism.

I would love to see some intelligent and reasoned debate on creation v evolution but we never seem to get beyond the same tired old nonsense being repeated yet again on this thread.

The fact that I, along with 99% of every other person who believes in some form of the biblical account of creation are so unprepared to counter even the most basic of arguments for evolution was a massive red flag once I started to actually read up on the subject.

shepherdless

Quarterback - JW's do not take the Genesis account literally. When it says the Earth was created in 6 days, a day is not understood to be 24 hrs long.

Yes, that is what I meant when I said they aren't "young earth" creationists.

Quarterback - You do realize that some scientists accept the Creation account when it comes to explain how it all started such as in the Big Bang theory.

I have never read anywhere a scientist in any scientific literature stating something like, "therefore the creation account must be correct..." in relation to the origin of the universe. By the way, can you specify this "Creation account" in Genesis (or elsewhere) that explains the Big Bang theory?

Quarterback - I don't think you can get to a version of evolution by logic, deduction or reason.

Well I can't agree on that. To me it is just the obvious explanation for so much I see in the animal kingdom and the plant kingdom. It explains why certain insects become resistant to pesticides, why certain diseases become resistant to antibiotics etc.

Anyway, each to their own. I expect Cofty will be along soon with a few questions for you.

Joe Grundy

" Evolution is theories."

Here we go again. One more time for those at the back, please.

Phizzy

" Quarterback - I don't think you can get to a version of evolution by logic, deduction or reason."

Darwin did. Coupled with hugely intelligent Observation of course.

EdenOne

Evolution is theories.

You are confusing "theory" with guesswork, speculation, conjecture, or hypothesis. Not so.

From Wiki:

"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide empirical support ("verify") or empirically contradict ("falsify") it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge, in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which is better characterized by the word 'hypothesis').Scientific theories are distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions."

Eden

cofty

Quarterback - JWs are creationists. There are many flavours of creationists including the Watchtower's preference, the "old-earth" variety. They are no more credible than Ken Ham.

You do realize that some scientists accept the Creation account

By "some scientists" do you mean some engineers, dentists and school lab technicians?

Evolution is theories.

Did you really say that? Please google "scientific theory definition".

I don't think you can get to a version of evolution by logic, deduction or reason.

You get to it via facts...

family values, morals, and respect for others views

Evolution has nothing to do with any of these things. It's just a fact about reality. All living things evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years. The earth is not flat. Both of these things are facts. Neither of them have anything to do with family values.

My "views" do not deserve respect, neither do yours. We are not discussing the best flavour of ice cream. When it comes to reality only facts matter.

Here are a few basic questions you might want to take a look at...

notsurewheretogo

"t's important to be realistic. Nobody is ever going to declare right there on the spot that they have been wrong all along. My objective is to present something clear and memorable and then perhaps in the future when other things happen in their life they will give themselves permission to face up to doubts."

I applaud this objective...you have planted a seed...as I said in my previous comment you will never get them to think you are right there and then but that was not your objective.

I live not far away from Edinburgh, I'm up in the Highlands...next time I'm down your way I'll offer to buy you a coffee/pint...

cofty

Thanks notsure, it's a deal.

Phizzy

Looking back over my gradual journey to the point where I finally walked away from the JW mess, it was a good number of "seeds" planted over the years by good people like Cofty, that got me to the point where I would break free.

Just as there are no immediate conversions into the Cult, despite some fanciful WT " experiences" over the years, there are not in fact sudden and dramatic exits. People leave eventually, after a number of trigger events.

So we all need to emulate Cofty, and get "planting" !

Excellent Conversation At Literature Trolley

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