John 3:13

by ClassAvenger 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ClassAvenger

    According to John 3:13, "no one has ascended to heaven". I've been wondering what this means, does it mean that no one but Jesus ascended to heaven and came back to explain celestial things?

  • onacruse

    ClassA, do you want a JW answer, or an "orthodox" answer?


  • Kenneson

    I suppose it could be claimed that Enoch was taken up to heaven, but he didn't descend from heaven like Jesus did with knowledge about the heavenly world and share it with us. So Jesus would be the only source of heavenly knowledge.

  • robhic
    According to John 3:13, "no one has ascended to heaven". I've been wondering what this means, does it mean that no one but Jesus ascended to heaven and came back to explain celestial things?

    Here is a quote from Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible commentary on this question:

    Joh 3:13 -

    And no man hath ascended into heavens -

    No man, therefore, is qualified to speak of heavenly things,

    Joh_3:12 . To speak of those things requires intimate acquaintance with them - demands that we have seen them; and as no one has ascended into heaven and returned, so no one is qualified to speak of them but He who came down from heaven. This does not mean that no one had Gone to heaven or had been saved, for Enoch and Elijah had been borne there ( Gen_5:24 ; compare Heb_11:5 ; 2Ki_2:11 ); and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and others were there: but it means that no one had ascended and "returned," so as to be qualified to speak of the things there.

    ClassAvenger, looks like you and Albert seem to agree.


  • ClassAvenger

    Onacruse: I wanted an orthodox answer to explain to share with a JW.

    Robhic: Thanks for the information, its great and now I know.

  • AGuest

    May you have peace!

    The verse is explained by John 14:2, 3. Before anyone else could "ascend" into the heavens, my Lord had to "open the way"... and go "make a place" for such ones. Prior to his doing so, no one had yet ascended. Since his going first, as the "head", opening the way, and making such place (which occurred in 30CE when he ascended, and then afterward poured out holy spirit so that those who received such spirit could be "regenerated" into spirit beings - a process which is not immediate, for it starts with the INSIDE of the "cup"), the "Body" can now follow ("can a nation be born in one day?").

    One event that resulted in a place being made was when the heavens... the higher spirit realm(s)... were cleansed of Satan and his angels... and my Lord became the "Door"... the "narrow gate"... the "way" INTO such place.

    This does not mean that no one was ever raised up (resurrected - think of the boy raised by Elijah)... nor does it mean no one was ever taken up (again, think Elijah... as well as Enoch - yet, neither of these "entered" the kingdom of the heavens).

    However, no one can enter unless they do so THROUGH the Christ, the "Door" or "narrow gate"... which few "find." Such ascension is not a fleshly thing, as it is not about "finding" the Christ as his disciples did during his days in the flesh. Since the fulfillment of the Law Covenant, ALL things now are with regard to the SPIRIT... for one must worship God WITH spirit. Just as Thomas was told,

    "Do you believe because you SEE? Happy are those who do NOT see and yet believe."

    What such ascension means NOW, then, is passing... from glory (of the flesh)... to glory (of the spirit). Thus, once my Lord was glorified, he was able to "ascend" - his flesh was changed so that he COULD enter. So, too, when he returns and glorifies those in union with him, they, too, will "ascend"... either by means of the resurrection of their spirit to a spirit body OR by means of a simple and immediate change... metamorphosis... to a spirit body.

    But such resurrection is to THIS realm, as resurrections have always been: no one is "resurrected" to the spirit realm, contrary to the false teachings of the WTBTS and other religions. What occurs is that the spirits of those who belong to Christ who died "during his presence" - which spirits are "under the altar of God" (or in His highest protection) but in a waiting state - are resurrected first to this realm, and then, in an instant, are given spirit bodies at the SAME time that the bodies of those who belonged to him and have NOT died... are "changed"... metamorphed... into spirit bodies... so that TOGETHER... they ascend. No one goes before anyone else: the Body joins the Head... at one time.

    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

    This is what Christ meant when he said,

    "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me and has died will be brought back to life, and he who believes in me and has NOT died... will never die."

    The latter ones "never die" because they are simply changed; they never "taste" death.

    Why does it occur this way? Because flesh... with its blood... cannot enter the kingdom. The kingdom is OF the spirit... and FOR the spirit. Flesh... with its blood... which is "unclean"... corruptible (meaning it holds in it sickness and death) must reside OUTSIDE the kingdom. In this (the physical or "terrestrial") realm. However, spirit bodies CAN enter... for they are "incorruptible"... "celestial"... and thus, they do not hold IN them sickness or death.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-54

    Since the kingdom itself has now been cleansed of what is "bad", Satan and his angels now reside OUTSIDE the kingdom, outside their former "dwelling place"... along with the spirits that "sinned" in Noah's day... in the place between flesh... with its blood (red hemoglobin) and spirit with its blood... (holy spirit). That place is "darkness"... or "tartarus"... a place of spiritual unmanifestation for spirit beings (spirits need a BODY, whether spiritual or physical) in order to manifest). Since they can no longer reflect God's light... or glory... they are "in darkness". (If you will recall the angel's seen in the fire furnace and my Lord's tomb, you will recall the "lighting" that they seemed to be in.) Thus, now, in order to manifest, they must enter living beings and take over their bodies.

    Now, some might say that angels "ascend", in that they come and go from the spirit realm. But that is not the same as "ascending," for such ascending is not simply a coming and going, but rather an exalting. Christ, as the Head of the Body was the first to be exalted; afterward, his Body will also be exalted... and "ascend"... in GLORY... to the kingdom of the heavens.

    I hope this helps you, and again, I bid you peace.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


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