Why the story of Noah's ark is scientifically impossible: Minimum Viable Population

by ILoveTTATT2 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  ILoveTTATT2

  I didn't know this but there is a way to calculate the minimum population required for a certain species to survive over the next 100 to 1000 years. This is called the "minimum viable population".

  
  Genesis states that 2 (or 7) of each "kind" went into the ark. Supposing that each "kind" means each "species", and they all could fit in the ark, and they came out safely, most of the species would have died, because it is impossible to survive, long-term, with a starting population of 2.
  
  This is interesting:
  
  "An MVP of 500 to 1,000 has often been given as an average for terrestrial vertebrates when inbreeding or genetic variability is ignored.[3][4] When inbreeding effects are included, estimates of MVP for many species are in the thousands. Based on a meta-analysis of reported values in the literature for many species, Traill et al. reported a median MVP of 4,169 individuals.[5]"
  
  4169 individuals PER SPECIES are required to have the species survive. Otherwise there is not enough genetic variation to survive, there would be massive extinction the moment the species encountered anything that would be harmful to its genetic pool (which would be very limited).
  
  
  If you want to read more, here's the article on Wikipedia:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_population
  
  
  
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  redvip2000

  It's not impossible if Jeevoova protects them and makes sure they procreate. You are forgetting that the magic wand of Jeevoova can not only fly koala bears from Australia to the middle east, but can make sure they have babies afterwards. This is why you can't debunk this story with logic.
  
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  scratchme1010

  How did they keep a pair of mosquitoes in the Ark?
  
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  ILoveTTATT2

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w
  
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  Simon

  You are forgetting that the magic wand of Jeevoova can not only fly koala bears from Australia to the middle east, but can make sure they have babies afterwards. This is why you can't debunk this story with logic.

  Well then you have to ask "why"? If he can do all that, why have this elaborate work plan and story when he could have just clicked his fingers. Why try to come up with a 'believable' story. I say believable because it probably is to people back then, now I think it's one of those bits of the bible that shows it up to be all bollocks.

  Maybe God should have carried on resting, he wasn't really on top of his game back then. Not like ... oh, wait, never-mind.
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  James Mixon

  scratchme:I was told by a very smart elder, they hibernated for a year. So what's the life

  span of a mosquito... But on the other hand you could have a lot more mosquitoes after a

  year. I wonder did they have bug spray on board.
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  Heaven

  For certain species, they'd have had to have setup reproductive, closed system environments on the arc as these don't live very long lives. For example, a fruit fly only lives for 40 to 50 days. So the original pair would not have made it through the journey.

  Edited to add: And they could easily be consumed by many other predatory species.
  
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  jws

  To scratchme1010, it's now how they kept mosquitoes on the ark, it's why?
  
  I don't remember the exact number, but I think experts say you need at least a couple of dozen of a species to preserve it and bring it back from extinction.
  
  Ancients might have thought otherwise. And of course, as has been said before, you can always invoke "magic" from God.
  
  As Simon points out, there would have had to have been SO MANY miracles, why not just send a couple of angels to wipe out humankind. They could have done it in a very short time compared to how long it took to build the ark.
  
  And, all the miracles of feeding the animals, ridding the boat of waste, preserving all the infectious microbes and diseases without killing the hosts, keeping the fish alive that are sensitive to saline balance when fresh and salt waters mixed. Feeding those that feed off plants when the ocean floor is now thousands of feet below - everywhere. Just oh so many things to make this cockamamie plan work. OR, couple of angels, done.
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  atomant

  Didnt you know noah had aerators and water themometers to control the water temperatures for exotic fish as well as fish tanks purpose built and aquarium water test kits to test the ph of the water.
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  TheOldHippie

  Insects survived outside of the ark, the water was full of debris of rotting trees, plants, corpses etc., so they had lots to thrive on. Fish and water mammals survived outside too.

  If you need a viable population of some thousands, how come it has been possible to re-establish animal populations based on only a handfull of individuals? In many cases, they have managed to gather the 2, 3 4 or so living individuals of a kind, make them mate and after a few years they have been successfully re-introduced on their island or in their region and now are as safe as any animal population can be these days.

  I happen to believe in the flood story - but not that it was global. Huge and quite possibly having worldwide effects, but the flood itself local. There was not enough time for human or animal population to spread as fast as it must have in order to be as plentiful as it must have been during the days of Abraham etc.