Elder asking for help

by untruth 50 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  deuceloosly

  Untruth, when I woke up, I wanted to save my wife also. The method I used, which was genuine, is to research the Australian Child Molestation cases (ARC) I watched all the videos of the trail, looked at all the material provided from a non apostate source which was from the Australian government - and then i got to the video of Bro. Jackson being interviewed, I went home and broke down on my wife, told her her i couldn't believe this happened to children..... and the organization was more concerned with saving face vs doing whats right... I showed her the CLIP of bro Jackson... and let her do her own research on ARC read the stories, and videos... After that I let it sit for a bit.... and then started on studying 1914 with her... but just from the organizations material... So you cold have family study and ask : how do we know Daniel 4 has greater fulfillment? can you research that for me? What about Luke 21 what is the context that Jesus is speaking about?

  So you cold have family study and ask : how do we know Daniel 4 has greater fulfillment? can you research that for me? What about Luke 21 what is the context that Jesus is speaking about?

  how do we know Daniel 4 has greater fulfillment? and Daniel 4 says Nebuchadnezzar is the tree in vs 20 -22 why do we say its Jehovah? can you research that for me? What about Luke 21 what is the context that Jesus is speaking about?

  How did we get 607BCE? and why do we use 2 year after 539 when cyrus took over Babylon with reference to Jerm 25:12 says when 70 years is fulfilled? If 70 years is fulfilled at 539 why do we say it takes 537 to return and rebuild? where does the bible say that? can you research that for next weeks study?

  Or perhaps, how did we get 539 for Babylon's fall? if its from secular sources that we use that date, why do we say no to 587? we have to be ready to defend our beliefs can you look this up for us?

  We use Revelation for 3.5 times is 1260 days but what connection is there between that verse and Daniel? does the bible indicate? WHy not use Daniel 12:7,11 says 3.5 times is 1290 days?

  For her to internalize this, she first has to be shocked (ARC) and then after some time start the deep study "in" the beliefs... once you did into 1914 its pure crazy talk.. also you ARCHIVE.org to look up old watchtower articles about what dates the organization stuck to in the past and print them out... if she asks where you got it, its not from apostate sources but archive.org.

  Wish you the best
• 

  steve2

  Hello untruth and welcome,

  Your post is so compelling - you are in a very difficult position just in terms of your marriage alone. I may have missed it, but do you have children? You come across as genuinely wanting to do what is effective.

  The answers others have provided provide lots of possibilities.

  Whatever you do, proceed with care and caution - there is no need for rushing. Remember JWs operate with an "urgency" mentality -n as if everything is an emergency and is about "life or death". That is the very outlook that will trap you.

  Take your time because it is literally on you side.

  As the centennary of 1914 fades into the distance, I fully expect more and more thinkers within the organization will come forward. Even now, the GB is facing enormous pressure from several quarters, not least is internal pressure about its disfellowshipping policies which go way beyond a literal interpretation of the Bible, and of course the Australian Royal Commission of Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse which has shaken quite a few rotten apples from the tree - but the tree itself is in poor health, if not actually rotten.

  Go steadily and keep us posted!

  Best, steve
• 

  Pistoff

  Those who are in the congregation, the ones who are good people and are not completely asleep, are in a tough spot.

  They know things are not right.

  The Society keeps asking for money, even while they sell off real estate and are building 2 huge, upscale headquarters.

  They know it is ridiculous to single out brothers for wearing fitted suits, etc.

  But they are conditioned, even brainwashed, to detect even a little bit of deflection, or slowing down, or doubt, and they will run away if they pick up on this in you, untruth.

  This is great advice:

  " Don't attack, take your time and encourage her to think for herself. It will have to be her decision to wake up."

  And from Graybeard, to just be happy.

  She will eventually put two and two together, that you don't go to meetings, and you are happy.
• 

  corruptgirl

  Hi, I'm Sanchy's wife. Please read my post on how my husband woke me up here:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5640149346025472/how-my-husband-helped-me-see-ttatt

  It's so important to not criticize the organization or their teachings... Much easier said than done because i cannot follow my own advise but if you want to succeed in waking her up it's crucial because criticizing them is equivalent to criticizing Jehovah himself. Instead just go to her every once in a while with a "doubt" you have... hopefully she'll want to help you resolve it and therefore help you do research together...this worked for me...there was so much i didn't know and i began to have doubts about other sheep and great crowd being on earth (go to jwfacts.com), 144000 and little flock, 1914, this generation teaching (which has changed 4 times) etc. Get her with doctrine, find old articles and have her read it directly... don't just say certain book mentions this and that...its not the same as seeing the craziness with your own eyes. I woke up purely by researching and comparing bible with Watchtower articles..NO APOSTATE info. Good luck...be patient, be loving, and it just might pay off. Remember she is an indoctrinated robot who has been programmed to shut down whenever she hears anything against organization...if she get angry or emotional let it go and try again another day...i speak from experience 😉
• 

  Heartsafire

  Untruth,

  Welcome! I am currently in a similar situation as you except that I'm a sister and my husband is not awake. Every day is a challenge--especially at first. For months my husband was so upset with me he wouldn't even share a bed with me. Of course I was still an active JW, I was only coming to him with doubts and questions I had.

  Since then I have wised up. I stopped doing meetings and fs, although I will occasionally attend a meeting. When my husband asks why I'm not going to meetings I tell him that there are serious problems with the org and that the gb are lying to their members. I stay calm, respectful, and matter-of-fact. If he wants more info I tell him a small amount, but he never asks.

  The advice to be happy is a big one. I dote on my husband quite a bit more than when I was in. I also have made our marriage my main focus and invested in family therapy for myself. It has all been worth it.

  HAF
• 

  Spiral

  Untruth, what a situation, I have so much respect for you in this tough situation.

  I didn't go through the same (turns out Mr. Spiral was having doubts for a long time too!) but I have to agree with Greybeard on this one, other comments have been on point too I'm sure.

  I'm wondering, is it possible you can move/transfer jobs to a new and exciting place? If you get your wife away from her usual group, changing your reality and doing something fun and new, she might see things in a whole new light. Sometimes, a "change of venue" is what's needed to see things from a new perspective.

  I can tell you one thing, it's very true that a lot of JWs are really strict with themselves until they get into their late 50s or 60s, suddenly they wake up a bit and say WTF did I do wasting all these years???? I have seen this SEVERAL times this year, and it's heartbreaking to see people you know and like (but not really my friends, because the bOrg always came first) suddenly realize they've been duped. Good for you for waking up now!!!
• 

  xjwsrock

  I have a similar dealio. I too am still serving as an elder. I too have a super loyal uber dub wife. I have pushed it longer than you and am now finding myself unable to find the energy to keep going with this elder thing. I have worn myself out mentally and emotionally pretending to be a witness for my wife. Unfortunately it has affected my attitude, so no-go for me right now with the "stay happy" plan. I am not happy and can't not show it.

  I refuse to comment at the meeting unless I believe what I am saying. So guess what? I comment like every other meeting maybe. I cover parts on the program by skimming over the crap and spending the majority of the time on sections I can stomach. I'm not sure if it gets noticed but nobody has said anything. The audience is zombies anyway.

  I have never disfellowshiped anyone. Some of that is luck, some is not. I have reinstated several. I just advised a young couple to stop pioneering and give up the "I'm sure Jehovah will bless us soon" routine (I used different language of course). They are struggling financially but believe miracles happen if you put Jehovah first. Wonder who told them that?

  I have vomited ttatt on my wife a few times. That certainly doesn't work. She seems to think I will snap out of it someday. How funny. I talked to her once in depth about the "new light" doctrine. She seemed to listen pretty well. I think that is a good one to start with since it is so obviously contrived and yet so integral to the belief system. I made some in-roads lately asking - why doesn't the organization simply take on the apostates head on? If they have the truth and the others have twisted reasonings and lies, why not just pull popular apostate websites up on the jumbo-tron at conventions and go through them point by point? They seem proud to do that with apostate Christendom. (I actually just thought of the Christendom part, but it's true)

  Anyway, good luck. I feel for you and understand. PM me anytime.
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  Untruth, you need to be very progressive about this and also in a matter that will always place you as a spiritual man, within the parameters set by the Watchtower.

  First, decrease the number of responsibilities you have. You can explain to the brothers that you simply do not have the energy anymore. In the same time, explain to your wife that you need more time for your personal study. Make sure to avoid trigger words such as “Doubts”, “disagrement”, etc. On the contrary, use words like: “Deepen my understanding on teachings I’m expected to know as an Elder. “ “Some teachings are complex; very complex, and I just want to be sure I can explain it properly.” “the brothers are right: when we don’t understand something, we need to study more, Jehovah will show the way.” While you research these things, share as less as possible with her. She won’t be ready for that.

  Step two: Explain to your wife that despite all the researches you made, you feel somewhat inadequate to teach these things on to others as you don’t seem to be able to understand all the connections between the teachings. Tell her that instead, you prefer to humbly accept your limits and that you will wait on Jehovah. In the meantime, try to be as positive as you can about the truth and invite people over and act normal.

  Now watch. Just watch all the bad things that will be said about you and about your wife and how you will lose friends and opportunities like ever before.

  This will likely be very hard for your wife to live. She will feel a strong wind of coldness from the brothers and sisters and will wonder about where the love is. At that time, she might ask you about what exactly were the things you had difficulty understanding. Then, make sure to share information that only elders have access to. This will push her resentment even further, perhaps to the point of quitting the truth all together.

  All I can say is: Stay strong brother, this will not be an easy journey!
• 

  ToesUp

  Wow...I don't know how you current Elders do the "pretend" thing. I have a hard time just driving by a KH. I has to be tough and I admire your patience.

  I agree with many who have told you to take it slow. Mention things here and there and hopefully you will be able to make some progress with her.

  It is topics like this that make me wonder how many Elders and others are out there who don't believe this crock any more.We have been out for 3 years but it seems more and more are waking up to the lies.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  Never did I imagine I would come to find out that most everything I had been taught was false! One of my first thoughts was that I’ve wasted all these years for nothing! I really wonder how many elders are in a situation similar to mine.

  Doc raising hand to acknowledge the exact feelings (about 5 years ago). Former elder here too. Wife on board. All kids on board. Successfully fading now for over 3 years.
  

  Most importantly, go slow. Use an approach of "I don't understand this. Can you help me? If the organization is all about love, then how can [XYZ] happen?" rather than "The organization is wrong, wrong, wrong, and I can prove it!!!" Bring out a point or 2, then let it sit for a week or 2. Then bring up another, let it sit, don't mention it again for a while. And repeat.

  This is how I helped my wife to wake up, but my questions were sincere. I was dying inside when I first woke up. I wanted her to help me reconcile all the things I was fretting over. Instead, she came to see it for all BS, too.

  Also, why did we adjust so many times if Jehovah was leading. Generation, we have changed our understanding at least 6 different times.
  

  The lack of even any remote evidence that the Org is directed by Holy Spirit was a key issue. A key thing was the May 22, 1969 Awake! magazine article telling teenagers that the System or Things would not go on long enough for them to pursue a college education. Of course, there is a huge list of their "failed prophesies".

  You've woken up but your wife hasn't so is there any reason why you can't take your foot off the gas and sloooow down?
  

  If you resign as an elder, she (and you) will be shocked at how differently you are then treated by all of your loving brothers and sisters (that you thought were unconditional friends).
  

  Have you read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan?

  This is a MUST. Order it NOW.

  Welcome to this board. You'll come to love all of us mentally diseased apostates!

  Good luck. Remember -- BABY STEPS! There is absolutely no hurry -- The End is NOT near...........Doc