The two powers in heaven

by Steel 3 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Steel

  Lately i have been watching a video series by a bible scholar named Michael Heiser explaining the idea of there being a plurality to god in the old testament. The seen god and the unseen god and reading the bible though first century jewish eyes

  Of course being a somewhat of an unbeliever i checked out some Bart Erham videos on the subject and he basically says what this christian scholar said.

  Basically Christ is thought to be the manifestion of god that was seen and dealt with in the old testament. The seen jehovah. He was the angel of the lord, the word of the lord, the captain of the lords hosts etc. I am not going to write anymore because you could literally write a masters degree thesis on the subject.

  When you read the new testament without watchtower glasses it becomes pretty obvious who the authors though christ was. The visble image of the invisible god

  Its not even anti witness literature but completely dismantles watchtower theology. Its like a light bulb moment for me.
  

  Please save the bible is all bullshit comments. Some of us are here try and find theologic arguements to try and awaken sleeping loved ones in this soul sucking cult. It really isnt helpful
  
• 

  fulltimestudent

  The concept of two spiritual powers is far older than Second Temple Judaism and its Christian offshoot.

  The concept's roots are believed to have derived from Zoroastrianism ...

  Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonicdualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique […] among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda (Wise Lord), as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5] With possible roots dating back to the second millennium BCE, Zoroastrianism enters recorded history in the 5th-century BCE,[4] and including a Mithraic Median prototype and Zurvanist Sassanid successor it served as the state religion of the pre-Islamic Iranian empires from around 600 BCE to 650 CE. Zoroastrianism was suppressed from the 7th century onwards following the Muslim conquest of Persia.[6] ... In Zoroastrianism, the creator Ahura Mazda, through the Spenta Mainyu (Good Spirit, "Bounteous Immortals")[11] is an all-good "father" of Asha (Truth, “order, justice,")[12][13] in opposition to Druj(“falsehood, deceit”)[14][15] and no evil originates from "him".[16] "He" and his works are evident to humanity through the six primary Amesha Spentas[17] and the host of other Yazatas, through whom worship of Mazda is ultimately directed.
  Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

  Sometimes this concept is referred to as 'dualism,' and is noticeable in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

  It is believed that the Jewish elite came into contact with Zoroastrian concepts while in exile in Babylon (lots of time on their hands to speculate) especially after Cyrus the Iranian conquered Babylon.

  The spiritual idea of light and darkness is another Zoroastrian belief that was effectively copied by the Christian offshoot we know as Manicheanism
• 

  fulltimestudent

  If anyone is not familiar with Zoroastrianism, this YT video of a lecture on the topic may be helpful:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfYg70DEXx0
  
• 

  Steel

  So the concept of Jesus in the old testament is completely lost on a JW.

  I am beginning to realize the average JW couldn't even pass an entry level Christian theology university class.