Are gays really condemned in the Bible?

by jws 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jws
    jws

    Thank you Saename, that's the sort of stuff I'm looking for.

    Yes, we can read the bible and on the surface, it plainly says being gay is wrong. My friend is a Christian and also pro-gay. And I'm trying to tell her they can't coexist. But she's arguing that there are debates about the true meanings of the words - like you show.

    At best case, the new testament can MAYBE be re-translated with a different choice of words. And in that case, it may not say things against gays. So, essentially, if you squint and look at it right, she can be satisfied to say the new testament isn't anti-gay.

    But that brings up other questions for my believer friend. How can this be God's book if it's not clear? And if things get lost in translation? Couldn't god have seen to it that it was correctly translated? Or couldn't he, knowing it might be confusing in the future, have worded it differently?

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Some say that Paul was referring to temple prostitution, not being "gay."

    Does it really matter?? The Bible is a labyrinth of mirrors, and no one can agree on what it means. It's the most divisive collection of religitarded crap that was ever invented..

    DD

  • Zoos
    Zoos
  • Fernando
    Fernando

    And then there is the choice:

    being led by the letter or the spirit...

    "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor 3:6, NIV)

    And for an alternative perspective:

    http://biblehouseofgrace.com/same%20sex%20relationships.html

  • Linda
    Linda

    Hi everyone. In my heart of hearts I must say I cannot believe God hates gays. I trust my gut and yet the Bible tells me it is anti-gay. It is a confusion, but why are so many Christians pro active for gays? Is it against God to love gays? In the JW organization the members claim God doesn't hate gays but wants them to change. Is that even possible?! Oh man!

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I think the bible clearly does condemn homosexuality, but then it also very clearly condemns a lot of things. Most Christian religions these days have adopted a position of following the spirit of Christ's teachings without necessarily following the bible to the letter, and I think that is a good thing. Even in early Christian days there were different interpretations of things, so why shouldn't there be now? Even very fundamentalist religions like the JWs pick and choose what things they get their undies in a bunch about, so no group can really say they follow the bible perfectly anyway.

    Jesus said of a prostitute that "he who is without sin should cast the first stone", clearly indicating a moving away from the Jewish practice of following laws to the letter. In view of what we know now about homosexuality, that it isn't a choice, I think many Christians see that the more compassionate choice is to leave it up to the conscience of the individual.

    I have read the accounts of many gay Jehovah's witnesses and seen their struggle, their feelings of worthlessness and guilt, it's heartbreaking. No matter how hard they tried or how much they prayed they couldn't be other than what they were and they suffered for it because of the religion's harsh stance. To condemn them and treat them as unworthy of love and acceptance is to me the less Christian path.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    Same sex people couldn't get married, so taking away the anti-gay verses you are still left with the fornication verses. Spin it however you want, homosexuality is condemned. Of course, most who preach against it are fornicating, or just liars, or whatever, so straw and rafter and all that stuff. Or, like me, just throw it all out the window and do no harm and be happy.
  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Fernando...

    umm...you do know what that scripture you quoted is saying, don't you?

    Jesus magnified the law by showing the spirit of the law. He said you have heard that it is against the law to have relations with another man's wife but the spirit of the law says that even looking at a woman with lust is adultery. The spirit of the law cuts both ways. It judges and convicts BUT it is willing to forgive and heal. The letter of the law kills but the spirit of the law gives life.

    Just like other sin, homosexuality can be overcome. It starts with a willingness to overcome the flesh and it means putting in the effort in a making over of the mind. NONE of this is in accord with the prevailing spirit of our day. Like LisaRose pointed out: it is left to our conscience to decide (bearing in mind our carnal nature is at enmity with God.)


  • jws
    jws

    Linda wrote:

    Hi everyone. In my heart of hearts I must say I cannot believe God hates gays. I trust my gut and yet the Bible tells me it is anti-gay. It is a confusion, but why are so many Christians pro active for gays? Is it against God to love gays? In the JW organization the members claim God doesn't hate gays but wants them to change. Is that even possible?! Oh man!

    If there is a creator, a god, a superior being responsible for us being here, no, I don't think he/she would hate gays. But that's not to say the Bible is the word of said being. And that book is against gays.

    LisaRose wrote:

    I think the bible clearly does condemn homosexuality, but then it also very clearly condemns a lot of things. Most Christian religions these days have adopted a position of following the spirit of Christ's teachings without necessarily following the bible to the letter, and I think that is a good thing.

    And that's one of the problems I have with it. How can you be Christian, but pick and choose what you want to believe? Yes, it's a good thing not to follow it to the letter, but why follow it at all? If one part's flawed, who's to say it isn't all flawed/wrong and nobody knows what to believe is real and worth believing?

    Myelaine wrote:

    Just like other sin, homosexuality can be overcome.

    That about sums up so many Christian thoughts about being gay and it drives me nuts. This is like the "hate the sin but love the sinner" motto that so many use. It's such a back-handed way to be nice to others.

    It's not a sin! If you say they're sinning, no. You can't claim to be supportive of gays. Get it out of your head that it's a sin and then we can start to have a conversation about your tolerance.

    It is NOT a sin to be overcome. Don't quote the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mantra. It does not apply to gay people because there's no sin here.

    Funny how that thought never (or rarely) seems to get applied to people who beat up their spouses or cheat on their spouses or do drugs. We love you, we just don't like your sin.

    It's only when it applies to people the normal part of society sees as equal that they pull that love the sinner stuff. They know it's something different that isn't really that bad. There is plenty of hatred for people who commit other sins that others universally feel are bad.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    According to the bible, gay people are ok so long as they either get married to a person of the opposite sex or lead celibate lives.

    This demand of them is unreasonable. Gay people fall in love with people of the same gender. That's not a choice. Consenting people over 16 should be allowed to fall in love and pair off - regardless of gender.

    The bible doesn't allow that. It is, therefore, homophobic.

    The Old Testament is virulently homophobic, what with capital punishment for consensual homosexual acts. It's repugnant. The New Testament isn't quite so bad but is still homophobic.

    These things are undeniable.

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