by redpilltwice 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• ##### redpilltwice

23 days ago, Zeb posted this familiar but ever intriguing thread regarding 1914, the mother of all topics.

put youir [sic] thinking caps on.
zeb 23 days ago This was sent to me from Doug Shields blog. For those who like stats and numbers may find this of interest.
1914 – Recognizing the ”The elephant in the room”. The problem with the date ”1914 AD” lays with the two calendars that are involved – Jewish and Gregorian. The JW ”prophecy” of the ”7 TIMES”, which equals 2520 days/years, minus 607 (the years before Christ) leaves 1,913 years ”after Christ”. (The ”year ONE” – BC / AD problem will be taken into account later.) BUT…Those 1913 years must be counted as Jewish years of 360 days each – they do NOT suddenly become Gregorian years of 365.2425 days. Those 1,913 Jewish years (after Christ) have to be transposed from Jewish years into Gregorian years, do they not? The way to do that, would be to multiply 1,913(the number of Jewish years since Christ) times 360 days, to get the total number of days in that time period. And then divide that number by 365.2425 (the Gregorian number of days in a year) to arrive at the number of years it represents in our calendar. (The number 365.2425 takes care of the Leap years.) Therefore, 1,913 Jewish years, times 360 (Jewish days in a year) equal 688,680 Jewish days. Now, divide that number by 365.2425 to transpose it into our calendar. It comes to the year 1885 AD. The ”year ONE” – BC / AD problem still has to be taken into account. Jehovah’s Witnesses added one year, so the number of years becomes 1886 AD. 1886 AD should have been claimed as the ”YEAR THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM WAS SET UP” —- not 1914. This is the “elephant in the room”- something too ”big” to be seen. We were all focused on the 607 BC – 587 BC problem, and couldn’t see this one. If we can reach people (flood the internet) with this information, we will help many in JW.org to leave. If the year, ”1914” goes, many of their (present-day) dates go with it. They fall down like dominoes. PLEASE HELP. If we blitz the internet, we can cause a furor. JW.org will have a hard time doing damage control.

Now (for the sake of consistancy) my question is...shouldn't this whole Jewish/Gregorian-calender-thing also be applied to the biblical number 70 as well? I mean, if 2520 (7 times) are to be counted as 2520 jewish years of 360 days, shouldn't we also count 70 years of desolation as Jewish years of 360 days?

Wouldn't this simplify the whole (and sometimes lenghty) argument against this JW core doctrine even more? Or...would this even be in conflict with worldly sources who all argue against WT's year 607 bce?

• ##### scratchme1010

Or...would this even be in conflict with worldly sources who all argue against WT's year 607 bce?

Wordly sources? Professional historians, people who have university degrees, research education and strong experience in the area of both theology, archaeology and world history get totally dismissed by the WT as "wordly sources", and the WT expect people to believe their non evidence-based crap about the year 607. There's my answer.

• ##### redpilltwice
scratchme1010 > Wordly sources?

Scratchme, get me straight...I agree with those historians and I don't agree with the WT so you'll have to forgive me the use of the term. Consider it a leftover from 20 years of indoctrination ok?

The question still stands however...is 70 years to be considered 70 Jewish years of 360 days (just as is the case with 2520 years)?

• ##### Sanchy
is 70 years to be considered 70 Jewish years of 360 days (just as is the case with 2520 years)?

I think it would. To the writer of the prophecy, the jewish calendar was the only calendar.

• ##### cha ching

Actually, I was just thinking about this last week... but I did not have the time to reaffirm all that "I knew."

Just like JW's cannot claim to "not be clergy" and then claim "clergy penitent rights" when they don't want to testify in court.... they should not be allowed to claim "we must use the Jewish calendar of 360 days to be accurate" and then switch to using the Gregorian calendar of 365 days in the same equation.

• ##### OnTheWayOut

This was all very interesting when people came up with their various doomsday dates, but it is quite easy for a JW in later times to simply think that "a year is a year" and just as the Jewish calendar allowed a variance in the year once in a while to correct for errors, so a cult member would accept the theories that allowed for a proper year to be used.

I know that isn't really an answer, but it is easier to demonstrate that 607 BCE was wrong and that Watchtower predicted so much for 1914 CE that did not happen, and even easier to demonstrate that Watchtower and its predecessors has said the sky is falling so many times when it didn't.

This stuff is important to only a handful of us- most of whom are OUT of Watchtower. As for the rest, they already KNOW that C.T.Russell was right even though he was wrong. So further complicating the dates doesn't seem like a way to help them wake up.

Here's some simple math- Russell believed that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874, and that he had been ruling from heaven since that date. He believed and stated that the "Gentile Times" would end in 1914, and that Christ would take power of Earth's affairs at that time. That was ONE GENERATION of 40 years past 1874. The only reason 1914 is held onto within Jehovah's Witnesses to this day is because World War I broke out that year. But that was not the thing they were looking for, and if it was, it should have led to Armageddon instead of peace afterward.

• ##### redpilltwice

Thank you all for your input, I assume many won't give a sh*t about this whole matter, but it matters to ME. I love consistancy, the same reason e.g. we consider 144,000 NOT literal because the rest of the surrounding verses (and Revelation in general) is symbolic. You can't have it both ways, right?

By that SAME rule, we agree that 7 times, or 2520 years, need to be counted as Jewish years. That would lead us, as the OP concluded, to 1886 AD instead of 1914 AD, a difference of 28 years.

But if we count 70 years as Jewish years, that would still bring us to a total of 70 years. The difference between using the Jewish and Gregorian calender would be 350 days, which is almost a full Jewish year of 360, but still wouldn't count as one, right?.

That difference however, when put under scrutiny, would be of influence when considering shorter periods of, let's say months, during those critical events. When it comes to history and calculations, details matter, right? It's not that I doubt historical science, but I'm just not aware of the "proper" use of 70 Jewish years in calculations by all oposing parties.

• ##### DesirousOfChange

I used to really care about this stuff. When The Big A didn't come in 1975, I figured they just had something off in their calculations. I was glad it didn't come in 1975 as I was young hellcat living a double life trying (and succeeding) in staying off the radar of the local Eldubs. It was better for me if Armageddon was to come later and give me time to get my sh*t together.

Now, I couldn't care less. It's mindless drivel. I realize the calculations aren't "off". The calculators are "off" -- off their rockers. It's all mumbo-jumbo bullshit. So just MOVE ON! Life the life you have. Life is way too short to waste on this stuff.. . . . . YMMV. . . . Doc

• ##### redpilltwice
Now, I couldn't care less. It's mindless drivel. I realize the calculations aren't "off". The calculators are "off" -- off their rockers. It's all mumbo-jumbo bullshit. So just MOVE ON! Life the life you have. Life is way too short to waste on this stuff.. . . . . YMMV. . . . Doc

Doc, with all respect, for 20 years I thought I was well informed by "trustful" men...I wasn't!

I'm a daily visitor of this forum and I've learned a LOT by doing so. Going on with my life doesn't mean I have to give up my interest regarding JW topics and doctrines. I'm a thinker...and that could as well be my curse.

• ##### Finkelstein

From a truthful and honest theological viewpoint proclaiming a set time or date when Jesus Christ was to return is in direct opposition to scripture, even by Jesus's own words and directions and this is the very reason why most Christian based faiths haven't done so.

For one to truly self identify themselves as Christian one has to follow in line and adhere exactly with Jesus's guidance and instructions faithfully.

The WTS hasn't been doing that, instead its been teaching a tainted commercialized version of the Gospel in its literature proliferation agenda.