by Doug Mason 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    At this moment, we are in the Jewish month of Tishri. It is the first month of the Civil calendar and is the 7th month.

    Research quickly shows its deep religious significance, including solemn feasts such as the Day of Atonement, Gedaliah, etc.:


    I am fully aware that I am swimming against the mighty tide, but I suggest that symbolically for Christendom, that the "sacrifice" of Jesus relates to the Jewish festivals of Tishri (Sept/Oct) more than it does to the Passover at Nisan (March/April).

    Terms such as "propitiation", "mercy seat", "high priest", "atonement", all reference Tishri. And palm fronds would be available for the crowd at the end of Summer.

    Also: did any "Last Supper/Memorial" actually take place, let alone in Nisan (March/April)?

    Apostle Paul was the earliest NT writer. He claims that he obtained his information directly from "the Lord", not from any human source. It is he, therefore who introduced the idea of this "Final ('Memorial') Meal". It is he who described events taking place at that Meal. The later writers of the Gospels copied and embellished Paul's creative imagination.

    Not one NT writer was present at that Meal yet they were able to recount events in some detail.


  • waton

    Were not Peter and John the apostle present & partakers and also "NT writers" so called?

    Yea it is disturbing to have Jesus prefigured by a goat, as of everlasting destruction fame in Math. 25.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Not one NT writer either saw or heard Jesus.

    Paul, the earliest, died in 64 CE. He received his "information" through visions.

    The writers of the Gospels are unknown. The earliest, attributed to Mark, is not claimed to be by a Disciple. It was written about 40 years after Jesus lived.

    The anonymous Gospel attributed to Matthew was written about 15 years after "Mark". By then, the Jerusalem Jews had been defeated and dispersed. "Matthew" might have been written in Alexandria or in Syria.

    "Luke", also not a Disciple, evolved up to as late as 120 CE, along with Acts (a recognised fiction).

    "John" was created by the Johannine Community late in the 1st century, following its expulsion from the synagogue over their High Christology.

    1 Peter was written by a follower of Paul late in the 1st century.

    2 Peter was composed in the middle of the 2nd century.


  • Simon

    Yeah, the "Gospel" accounts are the equivalent of me writing about the American Civil War - hardly a first-hand account!

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Hi Simon,

    Or it's like the Watchtower writing its own history.


  • venus

    For people like Prophet Isaiah, sacrifice has no meaning at all because 'killing an animal is as abhorrent as killing a human being.' (Isaiah 66:3)

    Even Quran says: "Killing one man is like Killing the whole of Humanity."

    Hence no sacrifice would be endorsed by God. Originally it was renouncing of ego the brute within us which was later deteriorated into literal animal sacrifice and human sacrifice.

  • Crazyguy

    I have read that jesus was literally a sacrificial lamb and actually depicted so in early pics and writtings. It was later that he becomes human/god. So it’s hard to say, the Jews had a day or festival one per year where they would sacrifice two sheep. One was viewed as pure and killed for a sacrifice and the other took on the sins of mankind and was cast out into the wilderness to attract demons or something. Anyway that maybe the best place to start. And then work your way forward because after this is when it seems like Egyptian, Persian and Greek influences take over in the story of Christ.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Yes, there is doubt that the Hebrews/Jews viewed sacrifice in the same way that evolved in Christianity. The purpose of the blood in the Day of Atonement was to cleanse the sanctuary of sins that had already been transferred from the penitent sinner.

    Under the Jews' dispensation, was blood always required for a sinner to be forgiven?

    Further to my thoughts that the NT's soteriological fulfilment related to the festivals of Tishri (September/October) rather than Passover at Nisan (March/April), I find support in the NT book of Hebrews. Its metaphors such as "the high priest entering once with blood" relate to Tishri's Day of Atonement.

    It is my highly speculative hypothesis that the primitive Church found it advantageous to absorb existing pagan/gentile Spring festivals and to distance themselves from the Jews and their concentrated list of religious observances during Tishri (Autumn - September/October).


  • waton

    I remember giving the WT talk on the atonement day, festival of tabernacles, huts and the goat for Azazel chased into the wilderness, wt tied the whole thing to Jesus sacrifice for the priests, the "anointed" and the Israelites, publishers in general. There was also a time connection touching the Jubilee cycle. Fr, Franz never seem to have not got hold of the huts, tabernacles, as a meaningful type/ antitype though. nice rustic rusty stories.

    Still have to laugh/smile when I hear the word "tabernacle".

  • Confusedandangry

    Waton- I remember giving the WT talk on the atonement day, festival of tabernacles, huts and the goat for Azazel chased into the wilderness, wt tied the whole thing to Jesus sacrifice

    Was this a long time ago? I dont remember hearing any talks mentioning specific demons names growing up as a JW in the 90's? Unless I just wasn't paying attention..

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