Jehovah loves "even rounded numbers" or could this be a way to disprove the inspiration of the Bible?

by notjustyet 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  notjustyet

  While I am not able to recall them all at this time, I remember so many instances that when a number was quoted in the bible, especially large numbers, they were all "rounded up" to the nearest hundred or thousand. For instance the Angel killed 185,000 Syrians, not 184,879. Sampson killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass, not 961. And on and on on the even rounded numbers.

  I would guess that it could be agues that these numbers were correct but is that realistic? To me it is easier to believe that the person writing this was just stating numbers off the cuff and that it is all bogus. Can this somehow be used to show a person that maybe the bible is not really inspired since if it is, these numbers would have to be accurate. The amount of silver pieces would have to been EXACTLY the correct number, not one more or one less. etc etc et,..

  We know the Jws believe that each bible writer was inspired to write down the words in their book as it was somehow bestowed upon them via holy spirit. So Jehovah would know the actual numbers of silver, people killed etc and it would make sense that he would provide an accurate number instead of a inaccurate one, right? If that is true then these numbers would have to be spot on. Sampson would have had to kill exactly 1000 men, not one less or one more as if that were the case, the bible would not be inspired.

  If someone were to argue that these things don't REALLY matter then where do you draw the line with being inspired and accurate and when you are just throwing out numbers?

  Some other Solomon numbers found in 2nd Chronicles.
  

  Solomon amassed chariots and horsemen. He had 1,400 chariots and 12,000 horsemen, and he stationed them in the chariot cities and with the king at Jerusalem.

  
  

  So Solomon assigned 70,000 men to carry loads and 80,000 men to quarry stone in the mountains and 3,600 to supervise them.…

  Now behold, I will give to your servants, the woodsmen who cut the timber, 20,000 kors of crushed wheat and 20,000 kors of barley, and 20,000 baths of wine and 20,000 baths of oil.
• 

  blondie

  Acts 1:15-26New International Version (NIV)

  15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)

  Acts 2:41

  Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

  Acts 4:4

  But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.
  

  Also the WTS uses these quotes to justify their publisher slips being required...although there are no hours and publications recorded in the bible.
  
• 

  prologos

  round numbers? the most glaring example is in I Kings 7, where a very precise number, (calculated to millions of decimal places), Pi : 3.141592------is listed only as 3. It is proposed to send the precise number into space to tell listening "aliens" that we are working on precise problems like that. so, why would an intelligent creator not act in kind, and kindly inspire the exact number (within reason) to be included in His Word? to prove he exists? because he loves round numbers, not mind numbing details?

  the explanation is: In 1 Kings 7, one is not measuring the same circle, but inside & outside. --really though: the bible is not inspired, only inspiring.

  sorry, out of topic, 3 is not an even, but uneven rounded number.
• 

  fulano

  144.000, will be about 144.000 soon
• 

  Divergent

  
  Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth.+ 4 After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.+So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.+6 Seth lived for 105 years and then became father to Eʹnosh.+ 7 After becoming father to Eʹnosh, Seth lived for 807 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Eʹnosh, Seth lived for 807 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth amounted to 912 years, and then he died.So all the days of Seth amounted to 912 years, and then he died.
  9 Eʹnosh lived for 90 years and then became father to Keʹnan. 10 After becoming father to Keʹnan, Eʹnosh lived for 815 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Keʹnan, Eʹnosh lived for 815 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Eʹnosh amounted to 905 years, and then he died.So all the days of Eʹnosh amounted to 905 years, and then he died.
  12 Keʹnan lived for 70 years and then became father to Ma·halʹa·lel.+ 13 After becoming father to Ma·halʹa·lel, Keʹnan lived for 840 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Ma·halʹa·lel, Keʹnan lived for 840 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 14 So all the days of Keʹnan amounted to 910 years, and then he died.So all the days of Keʹnan amounted to 910 years, and then he died.
  15 Ma·halʹa·lel lived for 65 years and then became father to Jaʹred.+ 16 After becoming father to Jaʹred, Ma·halʹa·lel lived for 830 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Jaʹred, Ma·halʹa·lel lived for 830 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Ma·halʹa·lel amounted to 895 years, and then he died.So all the days of Ma·halʹa·lel amounted to 895 years, and then he died.
  18 Jaʹred lived for 162 years and then became father to Eʹnoch.+ 19 After becoming father to Eʹnoch, Jaʹred lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Eʹnoch, Jaʹred lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 20 So all the days of Jaʹred amounted to 962 years, and then he died.So all the days of Jaʹred amounted to 962 years, and then he died.
  21 Eʹnoch lived for 65 years and then became father to Me·thuʹse·lah.+ 22 After becoming father to Me·thuʹse·lah, Eʹnoch continued to walk with the true God* for 300 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Me·thuʹse·lah, Eʹnoch continued to walk with the true God* for 300 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Eʹnoch amounted to 365 years. So all the days of Eʹnoch amounted to 365 years. 24 Eʹnoch kept walking with the true God.+ Then he was no more, for God took him.+Eʹnoch kept walking with the true God.+ Then he was no more, for God took him.+25 Me·thuʹse·lah lived for 187 years and then became father to Laʹmech.+ 26 After becoming father to Laʹmech, Me·thuʹse·lah lived for 782 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Laʹmech, Me·thuʹse·lah lived for 782 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Me·thuʹse·lah amounted to 969 years, and then he died.So all the days of Me·thuʹse·lah amounted to 969 years, and then he died.
  28 Laʹmech lived for 182 years and then became father to a son. 29 He named him Noah,*+ saying: “This one will bring us comfort* from our labor and from the painful toil of our hands because of the ground that Jehovah has cursed.”+ He named him Noah,*+ saying: “This one will bring us comfort* from our labor and from the painful toil of our hands because of the ground that Jehovah has cursed.”+ 30 After becoming father to Noah, Laʹmech lived for 595 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. After becoming father to Noah, Laʹmech lived for 595 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of Laʹmech amounted to 777 years, and then he died.So all the days of Laʹmech amounted to 777 years, and then he died.
  32 After Noah reached 500 years of age, he became father to Shem,+ Ham,+ and Jaʹpheth.+

  
  

  God seems to like 'zeros' and 'fives'!
• 

  JeffT

  I'm an accountant. We work in rounded numbers all the time. It's also a common practice in all sorts of historical writing. I don't think the Bible accounts are meant to taken as precise.
• 

  TerryWalstrom

  The Hebrews and the Greeks did NOT have numbers!

  They had their Alphabet.

  The use of the Alphabet to do double-duty citing quantities, measurements, enumeration, etc. was a nightmare of imprecision!
  
  Because of this fact, a superstition arose whenever a "number" (arrangement of letters standing in for numerals) randomly created what looked like a Word--the superstitious people (priests) grew very excited and eager to find numinous 'meaning' in this chaos.

  This is called GEMATRIA.
  Today, we call it NUMEROLOGY.

  Don't be surprised that the numbers we see in our own Bible is a wild approximation rather than an actual and definitive specificity.

  http://berea-portal.com/forums/topic/388-gematria-how-not-to-do-biblical-apologetics/

  ---
• 

  TerryWalstrom

  I wrote on the topic of Bible numbers about five years ago here:

  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nwwMTsuB-vB3_w8fcLr8evgYmP8tyX1Vqcyn0ZiceV8/edit?usp=sharing
• 

  jws

  prologos wrote:

  round numbers? the most glaring example is in I Kings 7, where a very precise number, (calculated to millions of decimal places), Pi : 3.141592------is listed only as 3. It is proposed to send the precise number into space to tell listening "aliens" that we are working on precise problems like that. so, why would an intelligent creator not act in kind, and kindly inspire the exact number (within reason) to be included in His Word? to prove he exists? because he loves round numbers, not mind numbing details?

  1 Kings 7:23 talks about a round shape as 10 cubits wide and 30 cubits around. I'd give the bible a pass on this. First off, it wasn't a calculation, it was a measurement.

  Yes, if it was exactly 10 cubits wide, it would be 31.4 cubits around, if it were a perfect circle.

  However, how do we know the 10 is a whole number and not rounded? Let's say it was 30 around, then it would be 9.549 cubits across, which would round up to 10. If it were 30.4 cubits around (which rounds down to 30), it'd be 9.67 cubits wide which rounds up to 10.

  With rounding, it's all possible. It's not like it said it was 10 cubits across and 20 around or 50 around.

  For people not using decimals, this is, IMO, good enough that I'm not going to criticize them for not getting pi right.
• 

  prologos

  jws: "--it was a measurement.,

  a description of a measurement, a measurement of a vessel that could have produced many values at different, difficult to pin down places. If there is a divine bible author, he did not want to take the whole thing too seriously.