The Old Testament TRINITY!

by BoogerMan 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    Clearly inferred & proven by scriptures - though not specifically stated - that the 3 were one & the same essence!

    (Exodus 2:24) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Exodus 3:16) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Exodus 6:3) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Exodus 6:8) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Exodus 33:1) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Numbers 32:11) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Deuteronomy 1:8) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Deuteronomy 6:10) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

    (Deuteronomy 9:5) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

    (Deuteronomy 9:27) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Deuteronomy 29:13) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Deuteronomy 30:20) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

    (Deuteronomy 34:4) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (2 Kings 13:23) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    (Jeremiah 33:26) Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Are you aware of the other Thread by SBF on the Trinity ? maybe best to join that ?

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    The Old Testament Doctrine of the Trinity

    Today, among many theologians, it is a common view that the Old Testament does not explicitly teach the mystery of the Trinity. Nevertheless, the doctrine of the Trinity does appear in the Old Testament, albeit in faint outlines, and the Old Testament concept of God is by no means the stark, impoverished monotheism that the post-Christ rabbinical schools professed in their rigid opposition to Christianity. Believers adhering to the Old Testament perspective could sense that the unity of God does not exclude the richness of being that unfolds in the plurality of divine persons; from the perspective of the New Testament, the mind finds the blueprint of the Trinity in almost every corner of the Old Testament economy of salvation. This corresponds to the relationship between the two covenants: the Old Testament is not exactly a complete prototype of the New, but at least its shadow; thus, at least in silhouette, it outlines what the New Testament reveals in colorful pictures (Heb 10:1; cf. Jn 1:17, 1 Cor 10:11, 2 Cor 3:14–16, Gal 3:24).

    The Old Testament was a time of preparation for the Redeemer (1 Corinthians 10:11; Galatians 3:24; 1 Peter 1:10). The preparation occurred in the form of God's gradual self-revelation. The gradual nature was necessary so that the chosen people, living in a polytheistic environment, would first and foremost engrave the oneness of God into their spirit. This did not happen all at once: in the early times, God revealed Himself as the only God of the chosen people, and only in the time of the prophets did He require the confession that He is the creator and Lord of the entire world. However much the Old Testament is dominated by monotheism, it does not lack phenomena and statements that, while not in themselves, but when viewed in the light of the New Testament doctrine of the Trinity, can be qualified as a preparation for the mystery of the Trinity.

    Can we go further and say, with Thomas Aquinas and most of the great scholastics, that the leading figures of the Old Testament revelation (the patriarchs, Moses, David, the prophets) came to a clear knowledge of the Trinity by the grace of God? The Old Testament itself does not provide enough basis for this (See, however, Jn 8:56; Mt 13:17, Lk 10:24.). Since the mystery of the Trinity is the cornerstone of the supernatural order and a precondition for the mystery of the Incarnation, it is difficult to imagine a supernatural revelation without at least an implicit revelation of these two mysteries. It is also certain that the explicit revelation of the Trinity in the New Testament was gradually prepared by God, especially after the Babylonian exile, so that by the time of the Savior's appearance, only the explicit seal was missing. The following traces of the Trinity's mystery can be found in the Old Testament:

    1. The plural expressions in Genesis "Let us make man," "Adam has become like one of us," "let us go down, and there confuse their language" (Gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7); these were mostly interpreted by the Church Fathers as conversations among the persons of the Trinity (Cf. Petavius II 7.). The Jews generally explained them (Philo) as God speaking to the angels or the elements. Modern rationalists mistakenly see in them remnants of polytheism. Earlier Christian interpreters thought of a majestic plural (pluralis maiestaticus), while contemporary scholars are more inclined to see a syntactic agreement with Elohim. However, this latter explanation is not in conflict with the Church Fathers' idea that there is some reference to the plurality hidden within the Godhead (Gen 16:7–14, 18:2 (in the Valley of Mamre Abraham "saw three, worshipped one" Ambrose), 21:14–19, 31:11–13, Ex 3:12, 14:19); after all, the name Elohim implies that the divine perfections, which pagans distributed among many deities, are all present in the one true God.

    2. The Angel of the Lord (יהוה מַלְאַךְ). – After the fall of man, with direct communication ceased, God ordinarily intervenes in the history of salvation visibly through His messenger (מַלְאַךְ). This messenger is often identified with Yahweh. Thus, it appears to indicate a duality within the Godhead: the duality of the sender and the sent. The early Church Fathers identified Yahweh's messenger with the eternal Word. When the Arians wanted to read their subordinationism into it, Augustine interpreted it as an angel representing Christ. The Scholastics followed: the second divine person becomes visibly present only in the New Testament. However, it cannot be ignored that, according to Isaiah and Malachi, the redeemer is the angel of the great council, the angel of the covenant (Is 9:6, Mal 3:1; cf. Ex 33:26 coll. c. 13–16).

    3. The Messiah. – The Old Testament doctrine of salvation is not explicitly tuned to the Trinity. But the Redeemer is undoubtedly a distinct personality; moreover, Ge is not only sent by God but is directly called God (Is 9:6–Lk 1:32; Is 7:19–Mt 1:23; Is 35:4–Mt 11:5; Is 40:3–10–Mk 1:3; Zech 12:10–Jn 19:37; cf. Mic 5:2). Moreover, His eternal mysterious origin within the Godhead is also hinted at: "The Lord said to me, 'You are my Son; today I have begotten you'"; "From my womb, before the morning star, I have begotten you." (Ps 2:7–Heb 1:5; Ps 110:1–3–Mt 22:44.) Although from the text itself, it is not clear whether it refers to a metaphysical birth or merely an ethical (adoptive) sonship, it is certain that the Jews at the time of the Savior believed and expected the Redeemer to have a metaphysical sonship from God (See Jn 5:18, 10:33; but see also Acts 13:38, Heb 1:5, Rom 1:4). Such are the prophecies according to which God will be the Father of the Messiah in a very special sense, much more than He is with fatherly love towards His chosen people. The Messiah is called His eternally begotten son (Psalms 2; 110; Micah 5:1), to whom He gives His power (Daniel 7:13-14; cf. Matthew 26:64), and indeed, He receives the fullness of the Spirit (Isaiah 11:2), and this fullness pours out through Him onto all nations (Joel 3:1). Included here is the fact that God, who always signifies His presence through the communication of His word, wisdom, and spirit, promises for the fullness of time a presence that perfectly surpasses all conceivable modes of presence. The Old Testament does not yet know about what the New Testament presents as the fulfillment of this promise conveyed through the prophets: God's new mode of presence consists in His entering into human history through the Incarnation of His Word and the sending of His Holy Spirit, thus ensuring a new, eternal, and perfect presence of His wisdom and love.

    4. The Doctrine of Personal Wisdom. – Job and Baruch (Job 28, Bar 3:9–4:4) still conceive of wisdom in a substantive manner. With Jeremiah, then, begins the personification of wisdom in an autochthonous manner, without any foreign influence. The post-exilic books of wisdom generally present divine wisdom not merely as a divine attribute or simply a personification, but as a divine person (Prov 8, Wis 7–10, Sir 1:1–10, 4:11–22, 14:20–15:10, 24); especially notable is: "The seas were not yet, and I was conceived; before the springs of water were brought forth, before the mountains were settled in their heavy mass, before the hills, I was brought forth… When he established the sea by his decree, and ordered the waters not to transgress his command, when he laid the foundations of the earth: I was beside him, arranging everything, delighting day after day, playing before him at all times, playing in the world, and my delight was with the sons of men." (Prov 8:24.) The New Testament often dresses the teachings about the eternal Word in words borrowed directly from these passages (e.g., Prov 8:24–Jn 1:1; Wis 7:25–Heb 1:3; Sir 24:1–Jn 1:1). The Old Testament sometimes attributes a similar character and role to God's word (λόγος, דָּבָר), with references already in Gen 15:1, Num 12:6, 23:5, 1 Samuel 3:21, 1 Kings 3:9, Amos 5:1–18; Psalms 33, 70, 147:18, 148:8, 118:89, Isaiah 9:8, 55:10. Sir 42:15, Wis 9:1, 18:4–25, 16:12, 18:14–25. The spirit of God also appears with at least a definite personification as a cosmic (nature-forming), ethical, and charisma-distributing force (Gen 1:2, Job 26:13, 33:4, Judith 16:17); and also as the sum of messianic goods in the prophets (Joel 2:28, Isaiah 11:2, 44:3, 61:1, Ezekiel 11:19, 36:26 cf. Acts 2:16, 2 Peter 1:21).

    5. Many Old Testament phenomena and declarations inherently show a trinitarian character: The thrice-holy (trisagion), which Isaiah heard in his calling vision (Isaiah 6:3; cf. John 12:41, Acts 28:25); the first three commandments of the Ten Commandments relating to God ("I am the Lord your God"; "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain"; "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy"); the three major festivals (Feast of Tabernacles, Passover, and Pentecost); the three main parts of the temple; the triple blessing: "The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace" (Numbers 6:23–27; cf. Psalm 118:7). In blessing the people, the name of Yahweh must be mentioned three times, thus invoking the Lord's name upon the children of Israel (Numbers 6:22-27). Sometimes, it is as if we were reading a New Testament passage: "God of my fathers, who by your word created everything… grant me the wisdom that sits by your throne… Who knows your will unless you give wisdom and send your Holy Spirit from on high?" (Wisdom 9 (Solomon's Prayer for Wisdom); cf. Sir 1:1.8–10). Psalm 33 characterizes the Lord's word and spirit, or breath, as if they were personified forces.

    Augustine speaks about the "vestiges" (vestigium) of God. It is indeed true that every external activity and manifestation of the Trinity is the common work of the three divine persons, but it is also true that God is present everywhere as the Trinity. Therefore, it is appropriate that the results of His activities show some form of trinity. The human soul is tuned to these "vestiges" – all the more so because God created man in His own image – hence, when we attempt to approach any form of perfection, whether divine or otherwise, in our conception, we involuntarily associate it with the number three. This is the basis not only for the trinities in the Old Testament but also for the triads found in some pagan religions outside of revelation. Otherwise, there is an insurmountable gap between the latter and the New Testament doctrine of the Trinity: the pagan triads are associated either with the concept of God in polytheism or pantheism, thus they talk either about three separate gods or are poetic personifications of three different phenomena of the deified nature.

  • Captain Schmideo2
  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    Many of the so-called "church fathers" were nothing more than power-hungry religionists who competed with each other to gain prominence on the Christianity gravy-train by pushing theological interpretations & fantasies which would enamour the political classes and appeal to the divergent masses.

    Outcome: A religion created & run by the Holy Roman Empire - until Mr. Luther intervened. 😁

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    I thought it was Abraham, Martin, and John?

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