Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon 71 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon
    Simon

    Continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee ...

    Some people seem to get very agitated when I talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the WTS, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.

    Notice I said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the WTS for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form. So please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the WTS has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.

    I'm also not talking about actual crimes that the WTS should answer for. If they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately. Of course there is a degree of personal choice involved here too - whatever the WTS tells people to do or not to do, it's up to individuals to decide to follow those rules or not. They can still do the right thing. Holding individuals accountable may bring about changes in behavior before the WTS decides to change their policies.

    But for now, let's focus on the main thing we think is wrong with the WTS, with any high-control group, but that will not change in the forseeable future because it is probably impossible to legislate against, the thing that underpins all their other policies and abusive practices: shunning.

    Of course shunning is wrong and cruel, but an organization can't really shun someone (other than deny them service) - only the people in it can. Each of those chooses to instigate, pass on and / or follow directives to shun someone else and so it goes on down the line all the way to the victim.

    Given that there is unlikely to be any white knight coming to intervene in the form of legislation, what are the options? Will the WTS, of it's own volition, suddenly decide to stop shunning people because it's unloving and they suddenly want to do the right thing? Maybe that will happen one day if a reformist suddenly gains power but I doubt many of us really expect it.

    They shun people for a reason and they need a reason to stop shunning them, they are unlikely to seek that reason out.

    Why do they shun people? Clearly, for a high-control group like the WTS it's so that they can protect their membership. Not protect them from outside harm as they will claim as the reason for shunning, but really protect their own membership numbers from erosion. They need the numbers for growth and donations and shunning is a way for them to lock the doors.

    What will make them change, and what I think is the only thing that will make them change, is if it becomes more harmful to them to continue to promote shunning as a means of control. If they start losing people because they teach that people who leave should be shunned and people make the choice to disregard that instruction then they lose.

    The trouble is that many JWs don't think they have a choice in the matter. They are in a little box and they think all their options are constrained by the boundaries of that box. What happens if we tell them that shunning is 100% a WTS crime? Does it do them any good to be told that the shunning issue is completely the choice of the WTS to make? Isn't that promoting the same idea that the WTS tells them - that they really have no choice in the matter, they simply have to comply?

    So what is so bad about telling people that no, they do actually have a choice and with that choice comes some personal responsibility. Will they do the right thing or not? Regardless of who instigated it, if they choose to shun someone it is them that is actually doing it. If someone shuns us, it is them making that choice. Why should they be absolved from all responsibility? Why would we ever agree with that idea?

    Of course the choice isn't a completely free and easy one - it's encouraged because of pressure from others but that pressure is the same choice passed on to other people, that if you don't shun them, other people will shun you. Doing the right thing is rarely easy but throughout history people have stood up and done the right thing at far greater personal cost. It is not an impossible thing to suggest, to hope for and to expect - surely by loved ones?

    I think that instead of constantly trying to sell the message that "the WTS is evil because it promotes shunning", it would be better to promote the idea that "some JWs are unloving and unchristian because they choose to follow the shunning of their loved ones". We should be reminding them that they do indeed have a choice to make, that shunning is not and never should be an inevitability and that they don't need the WTS to change first in order for them to make the right choices now.

    Sure, it may be difficult - but it's definitely not impossible. The change in the WTS can and only will happen because of the choice of individuals forcing them to abandon it.

    What is it that we want to achieve and so often campaign and lobby for? Isn't it for people to be able to make their own choices? To be able to leave the WTS if they want to? So why is the message we so often promote that they can't?

  • cognac
    cognac
    "people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.
    Notice I said "some" responsibility, not "complete""

    I completely agree. There are people I've mourned as if they had died, because of the shunning. If they ever came around, I'm not so sure I'd want a relationship with them. Not only do they have some responsibility, but, there are consequences to choices made that might never be able to be undone...

  • cognac
    cognac

    I think part of it might be the attitude of the shunner. There's always partial responsibility, but, degrees vary depending on their approach.

    For example, if my younger sister ever had to shun me, it would absolutely break her heart. She would be tormented by it and for me, there would be nothing to forgive if she ever figured out ttatt.

    My younger brother, on the other hand, actively shuns me even though I've just faded. So much so that I can't even meet his newborn. Not as easy to forgive...

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Agreed Simon. I am regularly shocked at the stories that many have told here, of Mothers that completely close all communication with their adult or late teen children , and the vitriol that comes from said parents. .. I used to think that these posters were embellishing the story but I have read so many accounts from respected people that I must accept them.

    In contrast I have family who say that such shunning is primarily a closing of spiritual ties and they would not ignore close family in that situation. I have seen a d/f'd distant relative still regularly given practical assistance ,because it was the right thing to do.

    So there are individual choices and people do carry responsibility for their unkind, even cruel behaviour

  • steve2
    steve2

    From a literal-minded viewpoint, there is more than a grain of truth in what you say Simon. Even JWs would concede no individual is literally forced to shun another but they'd also acknowledge there will likely be "consequences" if he/she chooses to disobey the announcement.

    Same with secular laws. You choose whether to obey, knowing the consequences if caught.

    But generally to speak of "choice" is to underplay accepted social order and constraints.

  • wisdomfrombelow
    wisdomfrombelow

    Most witnesses consider the treatment of "untouchables" in India to be cruel and unfair. But they can't see the same thing in their own behavior. They would revolt if the Society demanded that they give them their entire paycheck and the governing body would give them whatever they think is needed to live from that. But when something similar is announced to the congregation's money, they instantly obey and don't complain. If members had wider interaction with non-witnesses they would see that they create the monster they fear.

    Apathy would squelch shunning. Reporting everything you see and do to the elders would stop and then there would be less people disfellowshipped and hence less shunned until it stopped being relevant. If people realized that if they hide there sins for a few years then they elders don't even have to form judicial committees per the Shepherd the Flock book the elders might go towards a don't ask don't tell policy.

    If people realize that they have the control then things will be much different. But that realization is hard for some people to grasp.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Simon,

    It has been theorized that tension is essential to survival and growth of a new religious movement. (Stark and Iannaccone, 1997 Journal Cont Rel) According to this theory the trick is having and asserting a relatively unique strictness that strikes a balance between to much and to little tension.

    When I look at Watchtower's organized communal shunning policy I see a religious movement using tension as a method and means of growth. This presents as a dial that can be increased of decreased in multiple ways, but in each case in a way that projects overall growth.

    Just to dial in what I think is a primary personal accountability problem for JWs, I think your statement "some JWs are unloving and unchristian because they choose to shun their loved ones" is better to read JWs are unloving and unchristian because they choose to shun their loved ones based without knowing precisely what the individual is supposedly guilty of doing. It is, after all, Watchtower policy for elders not to disclose details of a judicial case and loyal JWs are not supposed to communicate with a disfellowshipped individual about why they were disfellowshipped (which supposedly falls under the broad subject of "spiritual").

    From a purely biblical perspective (something JWs are told is paramount!) the model is to inform the church membership what precisely the individual is guilty of, whether that be having a sexual relationship with their father's wife (see 1 Cor.) or apostasy (see 2 Tim.) Watchtower defies this biblical model suggesting it is hostage to contemporary legalities. Yet contemporary legalities do not seem to interfere with other Watchtower policies, such as the one known as Theocratic War Strategy. When Watchtower wants to assert a policy it does so whether it complies with black-letter law or not.

    ___

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yes, there are lots of heartbreaking stories of people's families and relationships torn apart from it. I know it's real from personal experience. Different congregations seem to tolerate different levels of contact ... or is it really that different people feel the need to pursue it to different degrees? What really happens to those who do keep contact for instance?

    The main point I wanted to make was that our tendency to want to put the blame completely on the WTS does two things:

    First, it absolves the individuals doing the shunning of all responsibility which makes it easier to shun. i.e. "sorry, but I have to shun you - the Elders said so". When they say this we should ask "no, why are YOU shunning me".

    Second, in absolving them of responsibility it promotes the idea that they don't have a choice in the matter - we're effectively saying "yes, you have to do what the Watchtower says - the shunning is all their fault". Our response should start with "no, why are YOU ... (and only use the bible)"

    We should be promoting the message that no one has to do anything, certainly not break all contact with loved ones. If you shun someone you claim to love then that is a choice you are making. Sure, it may be difficult - but it's not impossible to do the right thing.

  • pbrow
    pbrow

    It is absolutely the responsibility of the indivdual. With that responsibility comes consequences. I like your take Simon that helping them to understand that they do have a choice and are making the inhumane choice to shun others is on them. Like corporations, religions are people. Until those people understand (by showing and demonstrating to them) that they are making the choice (whether they know it or not) to do something so uncaring, so unloving to their fellow human beings, they will think that they are doing right by god. We have the ability (not the responsibility) to help them understand what they are doing

    My situation allows me to not partake in the shunning. I show up to family dinners, I work on my mother's house and stop in for coffee. I do not allow them to shun me. Nothing short of a restraining order or police forcibly removing me from the houses/families I grew up in/with will stop me from negating the will of my family to shun me.

    I agree, show them they have the choice. Be relentless about it.

    Good luck,

    pbrow

  • cognac
    cognac

    I see what your saying, Simon, but am not sure I totally agree with it.

    My sister, for example. It would kill her to shun me but she'd do it because she really feels that she's doing the hardest thing for her and me, to do what's in my best interests. To her, it would be a sacrifice she's making, and an extremely painful one at that, to do what she believes is in MY best interests.

    Can I really find any fault with her???

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