Huge scriptures destroying their two witness doctrine and possibly all others!
In the latest broadcast the evil cult leader mention scriptures in the book of Deuteronomy saying it takes two witnesses to convict someone. Then they go on and mention Jesus steamily stating the same thing in Mathew chapter 18. But the scriptures they fail to mention are verses 18-20 . The jist of this part of the chapter is if a brother has an issue with another brother go talk to him about your complaint. If the brother doesn’t agree then take others to try to get this guy to see your way or understand your complaint. If he still doesn’t agree then take it to the congregation. If he still can’t see your point of view then let him be just as a tax collector.
But wait in the next verses it says if it can be loosened on earth is can be loosened in heaven , then it goes on to say if two can agree then the lord will do what they ask continuing where there are two or more the lord is with them.
I read several different bibles to get the sense of it, and it’s my understanding that what it’s saying here is , if a man has wronged you go to him with your complaint if he disagrees with you and know one agrees with him out of the whole congregation then he obviously has a problem and should be treated as an outcast. But if just one person agrees with him by seeing his point of view then the lord is also with them. This is why it says whatever is loosened on earth will be so in heaven.
This would mean if more then two people in the congregation believes that only one childs accusations about someone abusing them is enough to call the police or whatever then their opinion needs to be taken seriously as well because the lord supports their opinion.
This not only blows up their doctrine about child abuse needing two witnesses but any other doctrine more then two people in the congregation can agree to disagree with Watchtower on. The Bible say the lord is every bit with these two as with the others.
They are only huge scriptures in your head and they destroy nothing. This is the problem with taking 'Holy Books' seriously, you can find support for any insane position you choose to hold.
Yes Nic I realize this is a book of mythology but others do not agree. Showing scriptures in the Bible that destroy their doctrine is huge because it allows bible believers to see and read for themselves how this cult twists scripture to suit their doctrine.
Totally agree crazy guy.
If each congregation was allowed autonomy and the elders allowed to follow the spirit of the scriptures instead of a man made policy, then justice on the whole would be served.
But hey, loyalty to Jehovah (aka the WT Organisation) comes first.
The JW's have no interest in what the Bible really says, they just take what the GB says as the Word of God, not the Bible.
It is good enough for the G B to say their bullshit is "Bible based" for JW's to accept it.
Whatever we say will not shift them. Unless you come across a JW with an honest heart.
If you do come across one, they will no doubt be standing close to some Rocking Horse shit.
This scripture has nothing to do with a child accusing an adult of sexual abuse.
1. Jesus is talking to adults, about one adult wronging another.
2. It is about the perception of being wronged, and the settling of disputes, not about child rape or abuse.
It has no relationship whatsoever to investigation of the crime of child sexual abuse.
Watchtower, CCJW, whatever entity the 7 GB members are hiding behind today, uses this scripture in conjunction with one from Deuteronomy to cover for their antisocial policy to not have police investigate, and to ignore whatever charge the elders want to ignore.
The "trouble" with "Holy Words" is we bring to them our own take on the context and read into them different things. Your argument sounds reasonable, I guess, but in my view one interpretation is as good as the next.
I find it interesting that they use the two witness rule when it comes to allegations of child sexual abuse but all they need is the whiff of something "improper" occurring between the sexes to start hounding the parties involved (e.g., the elders hear that a brother and sister of legally consenting ages spending too much time together and the investigation begins. No two-witness rule there!)
BTW, as others have said, JW organization spends a lot of time arguing for its literal take on the two-witness rule without once mentioning allegations of child sexual abuse. That it itself is most revealing of the oblique way JW organization handles doubt. Never ever fully or in context.
Also we must remember that Matt. 18 Jesus is not talking about forming a judicial committee anything like the ones the WT corp. sponsors. And Deuteronomy does not condone secret trials but is about trials conducted openly and in public view(no WT style kangaroo courts).
Also Christians are not under the old law code so anything Deuto say about a matter is moot. Thus the 2 witness thingy is not binding and a requirement for 'true' Christians or a self proclaimed true Christian Organization malarkey.