by confuzcious 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I was talking to an elder today and called him on several points.
One of the points was that the Org disfellowships people for unscriptural reasons.
I gave examples of a gambler (yes, the Bible talks about greediness, but it's silent on gambling.) Being involved in Boxing. Etc.
Anyway, he said that, "Well it's not the organization that disfellowships... but in actuality, the persons disfellowship themselves.
What is your guys response???
I think its a bunch of bull. Honestly, how many people want to be cut off from everything they have ever known??? (assuming that the person has been in for a while)
Its the rules of an cult who do not want free thinkers or "independent thinkers" among their mindless herd. If people realize that there is nothing wrong with doing things that the WTS disagrees with, then where would all their control be?
Disfellowshipping is a scare tactic used by the WTS to control. That is all there is to it.
Kansas District Overbeer
This is a tie into section 5(a) of the Elder's Book which lists all the things "unrepentant" JWs can be DF'd for.
Gambling and boxing are listed.
This is the "real" Bible the elders go by.
http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/jv/unit5a.htm
Blondie
This is another example of the separating of oneself from responisbility for the cruel actions one takes. Just like their J-dud masters the elders pass the blame off on the 'victim' of their abuse! The ones who ran a foul with the Org. did it to themselves. Who sets up the whole scenario? Why, the J-dud masters do! But the result is not their fault? BS! Cowards and hypocrites! Maverick
While it may be the individual that chooses to do the actions that they would be disfellowshiped for, it is the organization that carries out the punishment.
Otherwise there would be no judicial committees, no formal announcements, etc.
It is the punishment that is being debated, not the "root cause" of said punishment.
Ask the elder if the guy at the electric chair chose to be executed. Likely he would say that they did. In reality it is the judicial system that chose the appropriate punishment for the action. (this is not to debate right/wrong of the death penalty, it is simply an example).
For the witnesses it is simple black/white decision. They allow little grey area. They state:
"Whoever that is not with us, is against us", when in fact they should be stating " Whoever is not against us, is with us".
While it may seem to be the same statement, there is a subtle difference.
I sat on several JCs, and while this view did prevail at times, I did not buy into it. It's the .Org which sets up the framework by which Dfing takes place. If a person's conduct runs counter to that, then by the judgement of elders they are df'd.
I kind of know what that elder is trying to say. For example, if a person is found to be a serious sinner and does not stop, they are df'd because of not stopping, and the elders might say in effect that the person df'd themselves. However, what it amounts to at best is a play on words, since it's the .Org which puts the process into motion.
