What scriptures does the WTS use to.....

by Warrigal 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Warrigal
    Warrigal

    I hope that some of the smarter folks on this board can give me some information as to what scriptural basis the WTS uses to claim that God does not take any part in protecting his people in the last days.

    In a discussion with a couple of elders who came to my door, I mentioned that God's holy spirit kept the organization clean in the first century after Christ's death...Acts 5:1-11. One of the elders said that God doesn't do that anymore but couldn't come up with a definitive answer. If Christ is directing their organization why can't he use his powers or those of the angels with him to keep the pedophiles out?

  • blondie
    blondie

    Acts 5
    However, a certain man, An·a·ni´as by name, together with Sap·phi´ra his wife, sold a possession 2 and secretly held back some of the price, his wife also knowing about it, and he brought just a part and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. 3 But Peter said: "An·a·ni´as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God." 5 On hearing these words An·a·ni´as fell down and expired. And great fear came over all those hearing of it. 6 But the younger men rose, wrapped him in cloths, and carried him out and buried him. 7 Now after an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter said to her: "Tell me, did YOU [two] sell the field for so much?" She said: "Yes, for so much." 9 So Peter said to her: "Why was it agreed upon between YOU [two] to make a test of the spirit of Jehovah? Look! The feet of those who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." 10 Instantly she fell down at his feet and expired. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her alongside her husband. 11 Consequently great fear came over the whole congregation and over all those hearing about these things.

    The WTS considers this a miraculous expression of the holy spirit, like speaking in tongues, healing people physically, and resurrecting the dead.

    2/1/81 WT

    p. 31

    In the first century, Christians had miraculous operations of Jehovah’s holy spirit in some matters of judgment, such as in the judgment of Ananias and Sapphira. (Acts 5:1-11; 1 Cor. 12:4-11) After miraculous gifts of the spirit ceased with the death of the apostles, Christians have not expected direct miraculous indications from heaven as to how a matter should be decided. (1 Cor. 13:8-13) Nevertheless, we still have what Jehovah’s Word says about proper conduct and how matters should be decided. We can, in effect, determine what has already been decided on a matter in the heavens. Admittedly, due to human imperfections, mistakes in judgment are made at times, but this only emphasizes even more the need to adhere closely to the instructions in Jehovah’s Word in handling matters so as to be assured that what is decided is what has already been decided in heaven.

  • rocketman
    rocketman
    Admittedly, due to human imperfections, mistakes in judgment are made at times,

    Yeah, but they never, ever apologize for them do they?

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Hi Warrigal I hope you're not yet another of those folks that I left off my list of "those who I'd like to meet in person." LOL

    The idea of God protecting "His people" in Acts 5 is, of course, in the sense of "keeping the organization clean." (Gosh, it's getting harder and harder to even type those words). The most recent relevant passage I could find was:

    *** w81 8/1 p. 25 Harvesting in the "Time of the End" ***

    ...the Christian congregation is a theocratic organization, recognizing Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. It is a clean organization, for out of it the angels collect "all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness."—Matt. 13:30, 41, 43.

    This reflects what the WTS had said for decades, as at:

    *** w51 6/15 p. 368 The Place of God’s Word in Our Lives ***

    10

    We are living in the consummation of this system of things. So the angels are concerned not alone with gathering the sheep to the King’s right hand of approval but also with keeping the organization of true Christians clean from all frauds. With the immediate participation of his angels the King has been gathering out of God’s visible organization all who fraudulently pose as being heirs of God’s heavenly kingdom but who are in reality sons of the wicked one the Devil and who have no proper place among the Kingdom heirs

    Your question made me wonder, though, if perhaps those elders were thinking of Psalm 91:11 and Matthew 4:5, 6?

    <---waves over at blondie "Hi there"

    Craig

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    mistakes in judgment are made at times, but this only emphasizes even more the need to adhere closely to the instructions in Jehovah’s Word in handling matters so as to be assured that what is decided is what has already been decided in heaven

    The wt certainly does have contempt for intelligence.

  • Warrigal
    Warrigal

    Thanks everyone for your wisdom. What sent the elders packing was reminding them that the account of Acts 5 took place during the 'appointed times of the nations' when God supposedly didn't have a visible organization on the earth. If, as they say, Jesus returned in 1914 and his arrival marked the end of the 'appointed times of the nations' then he should have had even greater power than that manifested during the first century. If, as they say, he inspected and cleansed his organization in 1918/1919, he would have made sure it stayed clean if only to protect his fathers name.

    Ya gotta admire their convoluted rationalizations....I still don't know how they manage to keep their stories straight!

    Just had to gig 'em a little when they said that the newspaper accounts of pedophilia in the org was exaggerated and sensationalized....I asked them what issue of the Watchtower condemned the media when the media reported the scandal in the Catholic church. No comment from the company boys.

  • onacruse
    onacruse
    Ya gotta admire their convoluted rationalizations....I still don't know how they manage to keep their stories straight!

    LOL, oh how that phrase just rolls off the tongue: convoluted rationalizations. Darn, why didn't I say that? LOL

    Craig

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