This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    cofty
    I do in fact wish that I could have a belief in a personal deity that cares about me and will allow me to continue my conscious existence after I die.

    Me too.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne
    I do in fact wish that I could have a belief in a personal deity that cares about me and will allow me to continue my conscious existence after I die.

    My feelings exactly. I also think that, if such a loving god exists, then he should be able to forgive my lack of belief, because, I have done nothing to warrant eternal punishment. And if such deity should deem me worthy of eternal punishment just because I couldn't believe, well ... then such a petty god wouldn't deserve my worship anyway.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    I also think that, if such a loving god exists, then he should be able to forgive my lack of belief, because, I have done nothing to warrant eternal punishment.

    In the Catholic view there's what is called invincible ignorance. Ignorance not by lack of education but because there are agents who put some kind of metaphysical blinders. Some of these blinders are the folk Christianity that is very insane. Atheism is valid for a lot of interpretations of Christianity.

    And if such deity should deem me worthy of eternal punishment just because I couldn't believe, well ... then such a petty god wouldn't deserve my worship anyway.

    Hell is not a punishment. Is a choice. C. S. Lewis said the gates of hell are locked from inside.

  • cofty
    cofty
    Hell is not a punishment. Is a choice.

    That is sick and twisted. It is exactly parallel to the lie that JWs tell about ex-JWs when they blame them for splitting up families. It is like the abusive husband who beats his wife while asking "why did you make me do this?"

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    I would would rate all of them above 5 and I would put natural evil at the top of the chart with a 9 out of 10.

    You're right about this rating. The problem of natural evil is the hardest in theology.

    But natural evil is a by-product of natural laws. And natural laws probably are a necessity in a world suited to free-willed agents.

    Necessity truths are universal in all possible worlds and come directly from God's nature and not God's will.

    IMHO natural evil is a necessity in a world of free-willed agents. But they are temporary in the lifetime of people and I believe the ultimate God's will is to achieve a greater good. Just like parents submitting their children to painful medical procedures.

  • cofty
    cofty
    But natural evil is a by-product of natural laws. And natural laws probably are a necessity in a world suited to free-willed agents

    No it isn't.

    Any intelligent deity could design a world without tsunamis.

    IMHO natural evil is a necessity in a world of free-willed agents.

    Natural evil and free-will are unconnected. That is why natural evil is an irrefutable objection to christian theism, and the sort of evil that results from the things free-willed agents to others isn't.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann

    Hell is the lack of God. Hell is the nihil (read about the Jewish concept of TzimTzum).

    The human nature was created to pursue the truth and submit the human will to it. Jesus is the truth. If you don't want to follow the truth you can't be with God. So God respect your will and leaves you to pursue the nihil. That's Hell.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    Any intelligent deity could design a world without tsunamis.

    How do you know that???

  • cofty
    cofty
    How do you know that???

    Because I understand what causes a tsunami.

    Designing a world with all the benefits of plate tectonics but without the earthquakes would be child's-play.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    Designing a world with all the benefits of plate tectonics but without the earthquakes would be child's-play.

    Are you saying this physical universe is ruled or guided by direct intelligent design?

    I think the physical universe is ruled by impersonal natural laws. Only these natural laws were designed metaphysically outside the physical universe.

    And these natural laws probably are necessary for the best world to harbor free-willed agents.

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