This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel
    Konceptual99 ยป So when a father abuses his child is this permissible and acceptable either because the father has an absolute right to do as he pleases with his child or that Jehovah has the right to allow any amount of suffering to the child?

    No, it has to do with the Plan we all agreed to before entering mortality. No true harm can befall us in mortality, and all infants who die automatically gain eternal life. Since infants are without sin, they gain this blessing as part of their heritage. If we shed the blood of an infant, this is murder and it disqualifies us from eternal life (see 1 John 3). Yahweh is the judge and chief arbiter of sin and this was with our consent before we were born. The idea isn't to survive death, but to be redeemed from it.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Firstly I didn't agree to a plan.

    Secondly my point is not about infants. It's about the illogical position you've taken to explain away the endless suffering that takes place to all humankind (supposedly all God's children), suffering that you would not permit a child of yours to endure for even a small amount of time, let alone countless lifetimes.

    Even if one was to accept, for the sake of argument, the issue of universal sovereignty then there is still no logical answer as to why God keeps going and going and going with his game of billy big bollocks with Satan.

    I sucked the illogical side up for years and years. Since waking up I've not heard anything even remotely logical to explain this mad situation the Bible creates.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    On your point of redemption. Supposedly Jesus' death provided the means for that redemption. The mechanism has been in place for 2000 years. To hold off implementing it for 2000 years is simply callous.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Cold Steel - Interesting. I didn't realise Mormonism was so callous.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Another thing that would make me believe....and how do I say this tactfully?

    ....religious people seem to talk (as did I once), in airy fairy unrealistic terms. Their chosen deity can make it all better and defy logic by using magic. It sounds such utter nonsense. why, out of all the gods that ever existed, is theirs the real, not made up one...such a co-incidence.

    For me to believe; believers should speak in compelling terms that make absolute, logical sense. Please, no more airy fairy magic man nonsense.

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    - What exactly is the soul?

    Every soul is created directly by God at the moment of conception. The soul is non-physical and is created from the metaphysical nothing (nihil). The soul is very simple in structure and have no parts. The soul being created directly by God is a perfect structure. Having no parts it can't disintegrate so it's immortal.

    - What does the soul do?
    - What function(s) is the soul responsible for?

    The soul is simple in structure but complex in function. Basically it's responsible for our will, intellect and abstract memory. It enhances all the mind properties produced by the brain too.

    - What function(s) is our brain responsible for?

    The brain indeed is responsible for some properties of our minds (the immortal soul is just a part of our minds). The brain produces what is called physical soul (or animal soul). This soul is mortal. Our immortal soul is connected with this physical soul. Catholicism say that humans have three souls: spiritual (Psyche), animal (anima, nephesh) and vegetative soul. The very union of the immortal soul and the physical soul is what is partially broken in humans. This physical soul is responsible for an instinctive will that is opposed to the spiritual will.

    - What proof do you have that it is the soul and not our brain that controls every aspect of our consciousness?

    There are animal brains much more sophisticated than humans and they don't produce consciousness. We have mental abilities not traceable to other species, so we have mental properties coming out of the blue (not traceable to biological evolution) like the sense of justice, beauty, perfection and infinity, etc. The gap between human mind and the other animals is practically infinite. How do you explain the Internet to your smart dog and cat?

    - Where is the soul hiding? Area after area of the brain has yielded up its secrets to the probing of neuroscience, and not a trace of it has been found.

    The soul is spiritual or metaphysical it can't be detected by scientific method.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    john_mann - that's interesting about your view of the soul. Not wishing to sound argumentative, but where's your absolute, irrefutable proof of your assertions, or are you just pulling our legs? (You can never tell with these forum comments).

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann

    The study of soul predates Christianity.

    While the soul cannot be reached through the scientific method it's reached through philosophy and is a philosophical subject of study. I think the only "leap of faith" is the soul is immortal or not. If you think the word soul is too much religious you can use the word software. The word soul was originated outside religion.

    It can be reached through intuition too. Search your own intuition and you will see.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    Joh_mann - It can be reached through intuition too. Search your own intuition and you will see.

    You are having a joke with me, right? You are, aren't you??

  • Saethydd
    Saethydd

    The study of soul predates Christianity.

    While the soul cannot be reached through the scientific method it's reached through philosophy and is a philosophical subject of study. I think the only "leap of faith" is the soul is immortal or not. If you think the word soul is too much religious you can use the word software. The word soul was originated outside religion.

    It can be reached through intuition too. Search your own intuition and you will see.

    Short answer, he doesn't have any objective and verifiable evidence. It's all based on how you feel about it.

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