Does the Bible Teach...?

by Vanderhoven7 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7


    1. Does the Bible teach when the Great Crowd of Revelation 7 started forming?

    The Watchtower had expressed the hope that a convention scheduled for May 30 to June 3, 1935, in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., would be “a real comfort and benefit” to those pictured by Jehonadab. And that it proved to be! In a stirring talk on “The Great Multitude,” delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, J. F. Rutherford ... declared: “Behold! The great multitude!” There was a hush, followed by loud cheering.”The Watchtower May 1, 2001 pp.14-15 “Behold! The Great Crowd

    Was the GC forming in 1935? How do you know this if there are no dates in the Bible

    How was the 1935 information conveyed to your leaders?

    How many Great Crowd members are alive today?

    If the conventioneers in 1935 averaged 20 years old would they be today?

    How many of these have gone through the great tribulation?

    2. Does the Bible teach when and where the sounding of the 7 trumpets introduced in Revelation 8 got underway? (Revelation 8 verses 1-2; 6-7)

    When the sounding of the seven trumpets got under way in 1922, the Bible Student convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, (Rev.8:7) featured a talk by the president of the Watchtower Society, J. F Rutherford, based on the scripture, ”The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand. p. 172

    Is 1922 in the Bible? How about Cedar Point, Ohio?

    How then do Witnesses know this is factual?

    3. How do JWs know when the apostles went to heaven?

    “In 1918 he (the apostle Peter) was resurrected to the heavens along with the other faithful members of Christ’s congregation who had died prior to that time." WT Feb. 15, 1966 p. 123 Does Peter Now Use the Keys of the Kingdom?

    Is 1918 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed?

    4. How do JWs know that Jesus was conducting an investigative temple judgment in 1918?

    “Evidence from the prophecies of the Bible and their fulfillment in our time indicates that Jesus Christ came with his Father, Jehovah God, to the temple for judgment in 1918 C.E.” WT 67 6/1 p. 345 The Wedding That Brings Worldwide Rejoicing

    Is 1918 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed?

    5. How do JWs know that Jesus concluded this 1918 judgment by rejecting every church on earth with the exception of your organization?

    “When Jesus came to God’s spiritual temple in 1918 for the purpose of judging men, Christendom was rejected.The Watchtower, August 1, 1960, p. 462

    Is 1918 in the Bible? How was this information conveyed?

    6. How do JWs know when Jesus appointed the Faithful and Discrete Slave?

    “On arriving’ to inspect the ‘slave’ in 1918, Christ found a spirit-anointed remnant of faithful disciples who since 1879 had been using this journal [the Watchtower] and other Bible-based publications to provide spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ He acknowledged them as his collective instrument, or ‘slave,’ and in 1919 entrusted them with the management of all his earthly belongings.”Watchtower 2007 Apr 1 p.22

    Is 1919 a biblical date?

    Who exactly was appointed? What were the names?

    On what grounds were they selected?

    Do you know what the Bible Students were teaching and practicing in 1919?

    Wt 6/15 1962 p.380-383

    "Likewise it is possible to spend valuable time speculating on matters concerning the future.

    One might ask, In what year will Armageddon begin?...Jehovah has not provided answers

    at this time. Do you think it wise for Christians to take time from more profitable Bible study

    to speculate on the answers? Consider the dangers...involves more than saving time. It may

    save your life...Personal theories can cause division of thought..By setting up hypothetical situations and then speculating..are we not in fact adding to Jehovah's words?...We cannot worship Jehovah in spirit and in truth if our worship is based on speculation. Truth and theory are not synonymous.”

  • NewYork44M

    "Does the Bible Teach" is an example of an anthropomorphism. The bible is simply a book and has no ability to do anything other than to sit on a shelf.

    What you really mean is do individuals use the bible to justify their position about..(fill in the blank)...

  • Vanderhoven7

    Actually NY, the questions were initially all, "How do you know.... from the Bible...." to start with. The first 2 questions I changed tonight to model their "Teach" book.

    The point is that the very foundations of WT religion are derived by speculation; eisegesis rather than exegesis.

  • NewYork44M

    This is my point. The bible does not speculate. It can't because it is simply a book. Religions, such as the JWs, use the bible to justify their own speculation. So, don't blame the bible - in fact the bible has no relevance to the speculation.

  • waton

    Wt is stuck with the description, that the great Crowd, comes out of the Great Tribulation.Io cover, in the 60s they still taught that the G. Tribulation started in 1914, was cut short in 1918, in order for the Great Crowd (of OS) to come out, and will resume at Armageddon.

    Wt mag April 15 1995 admits that the Great Crowd of Rev 7 is described to exist only after the GT, ("salvation we owe" etc) therefore, the GC does not exist prior to it, but comes out of the GT whenever that starts. . Since the Great tribulation has not started yet, The Great Crowd does not really exist yet.

    The bible stories teach one thing, wt another. current example:

    "Jesus" taught that the generation would not pass away before the GT, the judgement, Armageddon happen, wt now teaches that the anointed generation will get raptured before almost all these things.

    bold faced contradictors.

  • Vanderhoven7

    NY: Actually it is quite acceptable to ask whether the Bible teaches or says something. And yes, it is quite clear that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses teaches falsehoods and goes far beyond scriptural teachings to establish its authority.

    Waton: I agree that the WTS contradicts itself on the subject of the so-called "Great Tribulation". My take is that the great tribulation of Matthew 24 was local and specifically related to the Jews of the first century. I see the "megas/much tribulation" of Revelation as referring to what Christians experience all over the world as a result of their faith in Christ. What Jesus said would happen to true believers, Paul confirmed in Acts 14.

    19And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. 20Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 21And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and toIconium, and Antioch, 22Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

  • waton
    Vanderhoven : ".. see the "polus/much tribulation" of Revelation as referring to what Christians experience all over the world as a result of their faith in Christ. What Jesus said would happen to true Christians--"

    I heard that explanation ~ 30 years ago from an "apostate" and pass judgement on that. I was here evaluating the WT version on it's de-merits, and even a comparing of these elements do not end up. That is why the deeper and longer wt tries to make the facts match their fiction, the deeper they get balled up.

    Now stretching the coming of the GT to 2075, and putting it outside the life span of the last generation.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Right on!

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