Origin of Life
I'll be one of those 'anonymous' readers to be brave enough to say what I think. I've been reading the thread with interest over the last few days and a lot of it goes right over my head and I can't make sense of any of it.
The only thing that makes any sense is the word 'If'........... the rest is a load of speculation.
I've been reading the thread with interest over the last few days and a lot of it goes right over my head and I can't make sense of any of it. - tornapart
That is a pity. SBF has succeeded in making a really simple and interesting talking point into something obscure and nonsensical.
The OP proposed a simple question. Scientists are working on demonstrating how life emerged from rocks through entirely naturalistic means with no intelligent agency.
I am simply asking for a conversation about what implications that would have for religious belief - if any.
This is why I get so frustrated by SBF. I enjoy interesting conversations about topics like this, it's why I come to the forum. Other posters like tornapart would probably join in and exchange ideas such as Memphis did earlier.
SBF goes out his way to make that impossible.
So how exactly are scientists trying to demonstrate this then Cofty? (in simple terms that a dunce like me can understand). Surely if scientists are trying to make things happen then 'intelligence' is still behind it?
As for the implications on religious belief... who knows? I would think that it would turn some believers away from their faith in God but I'm sure just as many would stick with their beliefs.
Surely if scientists are trying to make things happen then 'intelligence' is still behind it?
Not really. It's not like they are trying to make a cell or anything. They are setting up the chemical conditions that existed in a prebiotic earth to observe what happens.
To illustrate. The Giant's Causeway in Ireland consists of regular polygonal columns of basalt that don't look natural. If a scientist can show in the lab that these shapes emerge naturally from cooling magma - they can - then it shows no agency was involved in forming Clochán an Aifir.
The fact that it took an intelligent scientist to set up the experiment doesn't undermine the results.
I would think that it would turn some believers away from their faith in God but I'm sure just as many would stick with their beliefs
I agree. Many believers would deny the reality.
Evolution had a profound effect on some aspects of theology 150 years ago. We now know there was no Adam and Eve and no fall from perfection. Some believers adapted but others are still in denial. I wonder if origin-of-life would be any more challenging.
I have to say "tornapart " I agree with you, this thread has also been way over my head. But some great points have been made by Cofty, and then Slim replys with his investigating work and we have another epic thread.
90 % of the time I learn so much from a Cofty thread, he prepares the O.P so well. I do appreciate that, but having started a great O.P, the responsibility is to assure the O.P stays calm. Slim seems brilliant at taking those threads and creating fireworks. The questios are why is Slim a inconvenience to a Cofty O.P? Should Cofty respond differently to Slims comments?
In my opinion Slim does on occasion come up with some good results, and therefore raises some intersting thoughts which I appreciate. Therefore in my opinion it's a shame when Slim puts his needle into a Cofty O.P because the communication always becomes a lethal injection to a great O.P
Rebel - Just as we were getting a conversation on topic you derail it again.
SBF wants attention away from the topic and onto himself. Well done!
I think they will be waiting a very long time! If it ever did happen who knows what the consequences could be.
Just picking up on a point Memphis made about test tube babies. Made me wonder a little bit. About life begetting life and whether cells are living or not. They say life really only begins when a sperm and egg cell meet... becoming a new life. The egg cell and sperms cells quickly die otherwise. But even using the term 'they die' seems to indicate that cells are already living. Our body cells are continually replicating, renewing, dying so that the body is a different body (so to speak) than the one we had 7 years ago, apart from brain cells. However we are still the same person. So it just makes me wonder what really is life? And what is 'spirit'? Can it be recreated in a cell or in the whole person/creature?
Cofty, sorry to interrupt your O.P becoming an " ON YOUR" terms " ON TOPIC" O.P.
Any interesting O.Ps will have a language barrier. And that is not addressed by saying Slim simply " Wants attention" In my opinion Slim has raised some great points on this thread. So please respect the " Terms and conditions of posting guidelines," which are respecting opposing viewpoints. And remember if you think, the cold north wind of opposing views to cold for you, then ask yourself why is Slim a poster of plus 9000 posts still allowed to post here?
Maybe opposing viewpoints are of interest and valued?
What, specifically, do you think are good points raised by slim, rebel and why?
Vivianne, I think as a regular contributor to the board Slim has made many great points. But if you are referring to this thread, and want one " specifically good point"Slim has made I would answer the best "point" slim has made, is that by posting on this thread, he has shown he is alive, alive in thought and with emotional intensity to think and respond to your opposing viewpoints.
Now Viv we may end up putting our boxing gloves on:-And I think I may be knocked out. But you asked the good points slim has made by posting and I gave my answer.