by Believer 133 Replies latest jw experiences
Phizzy,
I disagree with you. We can't generalise about posters like that. We don't know who will sign up next.
Also you can't say that there have never been posters who break the posting rules and name call and use condescending tone.
Most of the time Simon does address it. But you can't say it never happens.
A poster made an accusation against me yesterday for trolling. So these things do happen.
Believer, you have my support.
Kate xx
Hostile to believers?
As a theist and practicing Jew I must protest. This forum is inclusive of and welcoming to believers. A little challenge and some heated debate never hurt anyone, and does not amount to hostility on behalf of this forum's members toward me personally or my practice of religion.
On the contrary, I am quite certain that if there was ever any real hostility (danger) toward me and my freedom of conscience, everyone here would definitely take a stand to prevent such from being unjustly taken from me and prevent me from suffering any harm. A few heated exchanges do not hostility make, in my humble opinion.
One thing I worry about is that my fellow atheist ex-JW forum members have so little outlets to freely express themselves and their valid emotions and views about religious injustice. If this is the only place they can speak freely and if I am the only one they can let out some steam to, then I am glad I am here to take it. I know a lot of other religious people would just turn them away or even persecute them for speaking openly like this.
Debate, discussion, and differences of opinion and conviction are beautiful. I for one don't have all the answers, and frankly I can't walk my path after leaving the Watchtower alone or with fellow believers. Being Jewish there aren't many believers who are very welcoming of me anyway...and I think my people kinda invented the "one invisible God" and "Messiah" things too. Go figure.
Have I felt like wanting to leave after an argument or debate. Yep. But I am still here. Why? Because at the end of the day it's all good.
I don't know any of you personally, at least I don't think I do. But some of you I may have loved dearly as together we sat blinded by the Watchtower at meetings at the Kingdom Hall. I love you even more now that you have joined me outside that cult. And if atheist is what you are, more power to you. My love does not dimish. I am certain at the end of the day you feel the same way even if I am a crazy mixed-up Jew.
These people, hostile because they are no longer religious? Rubbish. I love them because they are my friends. I keep friends because I like them, not because they have or don't have a certain creed or set of beliefs.
I come here for updates in JW land and the occasional posts regarding WTBTS history or doctrine. I consider myself a believer (not of JW doctrine, of course).
Everyone has their triggers as to why they leave JWs. For me, it was doctrinal dishonesty. Claiming to be "the truth" then changing that truth over and over and over. Certain JW doctrines are only provable by speculation and conjecture alone. Other doctrines can easily be disproved using the scriptures. For this "true religion", it's a farce. I've learned, however, that one can only see that if they are willing to let themselves.
This forum is a bit of a support group for me. It may not continue much longer, though. I'm getting ready to move on to better things in my life.
Kate, I was talking about my personal experience on this Site, no generalizing, as "He who generalize generally lies".
David_ Jay above echoes my thoughts, yes some may be robust in their comments about beliefs presented as facts etc, but that is fair comment on a Forum such as this. Believers need not beware.
I would welcome some JW Apologists like we used to get in the old days, to see all their arguments shown up for what they are was a revelation to me, also how entrenched was the mind-control, they all parroted the same rubbish that the WT has drilled in to them.
Believers , you are welcome here !
When you ask if some one is a believer, I have to ask: Believer in what?
Belief is a very big subject. Do I believe in a God? Yes, although I prefer to keep my opinions to myself these days. Do I believe the Earth is flat? No. Do I believe the Watchtower? No. Do I believe in the scientific method? Yes.
So what are we talking about?
I think you need to define your question before we can talk about it. I've been out of the Watchtower since 1988, the one thing I've learned is that the world is rarely black and white, a good part of the time it isn't gray either, there's a whole rainbow out there.
What do you get out of this forum that makes it worth putting up with the attacks from self proclaimed animals? - Believer
The problems usually arise when people confuse facts with opinions...
If people of faith are happy to believe incredible things because they feel that is useful, then good luck to them.
When they make assertions about reality they must expect to have those challenged and held up to scrutiny. Very often believers take challenges to their beliefs, as attacks on themselves. It is an important distinction.
Personally I never make personal attacks on others but I could not begin to count how often I have been called names and ridiculed by fans of Jesus. Those who are unable to defend their ideology are the ones to protest the loudest.
Facts and evidence really matter. It is insulation from evidence that is the cult's strongest weapon. That is the reason they practice shunning. It's about information control. Then ex-JWs come here and want to reimpose a new form of censorship. It's never going to happen.
believer do you think it was from blind faith?
Ucantnome, i dont understand your question. can you articulate it more?
I don't see this forum as hostile to believers. Facts are hostile to belief, though, and there are several here that prefer to have discussions based on fact. There are also many that don't like to let statements that are unsupported by evidence stand unchallenged. That can also be hostile to belief if that belief isn't based in fact.
Ucantnome, I think I get it. My opinion (just my opinion, mind you) is that JWs begin developing a real faith in God. They join the WT because they believed it would help them do that. But in time, they are required to turn that into blind faith, i.e., “following their directions whether they are sound from a human standpoint or not.” For many, by the time JWs decide to leave, their faith has been gutted of any spiritual reality and the remaining shell is easy to crack.
