If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

by nicolaou 152 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath
    and all this blood nonsense because they all bought the dream ticket of resurrection into a paradise earth. will they ever get real ?
  • nicolaou

    Twice you've made your posts about me instead of my comments JK. Let's try one last time.

    Would you facilitate a loved ones wishes to put themselves in harms way? If your answer is conditional on their wish being part of deeply held religious beliefs please explain why that makes a difference.

    If you only plan on hitting the 'reply' button to fire off another tepid ad hominem please don't bother.

  • dubstepped

    Man, you guys better hope your JW relatives are never put in this position for you with some of your views because you won't be getting a transfusion.

    I could not violate someone else's body by forcing anything in it that they expressly objected to.

    I am human and have feelings but to think my feelings trump theirs is to go back to the narcissist I formerly was. They are their own person. If my emotions got in the way because I wanted them to live for my own reasons I'd opt out of participation and let their legal documents speak for them.

  • nicolaou
    Man, you guys better hope your JW relatives are never put in this position for you with some of your views because you won't be getting a transfusion.

    Precisely. Don't you see that you've just acknowledged life is more precious than belief?

    I could not violate someone else's body by forcing anything in it that they expressly objected to.

    So would you give your Mother the mushrooms?

  • OnTheWayOut

    Some of you guys are really something else. One thing I learned exiting the cult was not to judge other people. I am still unsure what I will do when my wife needs life-saving blood and her JW mother is standing there. I will probably allow the blood and let them be mad at me, but secretly grateful.

    But if someone else decides something else, I am not going to judge them for their decision.

  • minimus
    I was responsible for my mom's health wishes and followed it to the letter. Whether I agree with it or not, it is her decision not mine.
  • OnTheWayOut

    Nic, while you and I might see it differently, people are allowed to refuse lifesaving treatments with a rational mind. I know (and sort of agree) that JW minds are not working rationally when their refusal is based on blind obedience. But many healthy humans have DNR orders (DO NOT RESUSITATE) for their own beliefs/philosophies about such. And I could honor that, kind of actually have to.

    And while your mushroom/blood question is not really appropriate because it's a case of introducing the bullet compared to introducing the kevlar, there are many different answers even to that. If a sickly person wants mushrooms to die peacefully, it's a decision I could abide by. If an over-90 JW wants to just die faithfully, what kind of psychological trauma would giving blood cause to them?

    It's a terrible situation. I have actually been on the scene where the sick person needs "heroic measures" and those measures will probably revive them, but there is the DNR plain as day, and there is the family member saying "Ignore it" on one side and the primary care giving family member on the other side saying "Let him go."

    Heck, even my sister (who just died a few weeks ago) had a DNR and her ex-husband would have ignored it had paramedics been called a little sooner. And she would have hated him for doing that.

    I get that there are many points of view on this one, and it's a tough call. But tough calls can be made different ways by different people.

  • nicolaou

    OTWO you make sense and of course everyone has the right to choose, nothing wrong with challenging deeply ingrained habits of thought though is there?

    I've acknowledged nuance and that each individual is different but for all the talk of respecting our loved ones wishes I think the idea of self-respect is still something worth considering.

    Allowing a very frail, and elderly parent to slip away with their 'integrity' intact is one thing, refusing to sign a consent form for an unconscious child, teenager, new mother, breadwinner?

    This is not black and white, I never claimed it was. These are questions at the edge of our probabilities, matters of literal life and death. It is only right to be challenged and confronted with an alternative way of looking at things.

    At the very least, if you still hold onto the position you started with than at least you may be clearer in your own mind for the reasons why you do.


  • StephaneLaliberte

    I need to have a serious talk with my father about this topic and do it while he is healthy. Doing so now would be better than at the last minute, at the hospital.

    I will ask him this very simple question: Please explain why the following passage does not apply to the blood ban. If not, than, what can we apply this to?

    (Matthew 12:1-8) 12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this, the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have you not read what David did when he and the men with him were hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him or those with him to eat, but for the priests only? [..] 7 However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones.”

    On thing for sure, what ever his decision, however stupid I find it to be, I will respect it. We all die one day or another... at least, he will go on his terms. Just like people wearing "Do not resuscitate" cards/cloths. Its their call.

    On the other hand, if that was my wife, I don't know if I would actually respect her wishes... she has kids depending on her. Thankfully, my wife is out with me and has nothing against blood transfusions.

  • cofty

    I think a lot of people have put special conditions on the question in order to make their stance seem more reasonable.

    If we are talking about a very elderly parent or somebody who was terminally ill for example then these are additional factors to be considered.

    What if it was a 21 year old sibling who has been stabbed but is otherwise is in excellent health?

    Forget arguing about technicalities of the law. Just as a thought experiment imagine you are in a situation where you have the final say. Your sibling is a devout JW. They are unconscious. They will definitely die without blood and definitely live with it. It is your decision alone.

    What is your call?

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