I got my Memorial invitation today but I just couldn't

by Tenacious 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Tenacious

    Some days ago I posted on another thread that if I ever did get a Memorial invitation I would ask for more to give to friends and family but in reality I was going to use it as toilet paper. But I just couldn't do it. The old lady was just too nice.

    I honestly thought she was selling something but nope lo and behold she was a JW giving out memorial invitations.

    As soon as I opened the door she hand it to me all the while saying I was invited as well as anyone else in my home to this "very special event" which was the celebration of Christ's death.

    So I played the role. I looked over the invitation like a curious first timer and as I flipped to read the back I paused, looked up at her and said surprisingly "Oh, you are those ... um, .... witnesses, Jehovah's Witnesses!" As she happily confirmed she was. It almost looked like she didn't want me to know this because as she handed me the invitation she was trying to scurry away to the next home. But I held her up and said that I had seen and would read some of their magazines in different doctor offices. I said that I enjoyed reading them as they were very informative. But I quickly moved on to ask if she could help me understand something that I had heard but could not understand why they believed that way. So I said it's about the deity of Christ.

    Once I said "the deity of Christ" I could see her eyes widened a bit. I couldn't tell if it was a look of curiosity or worry. So I said "if you look at John 1:1 ... " no sooner had I said this that she pops out with a small tablet. So as I start telling her about the specific phrase in the scripture when she says "whoa, wait, wait, let me get ...." and she starts fumbling with her tablet trying to open what I'm assuming was the JW library app. So there she is clicking and swiping trying to get her tablet to work finally she says "if I could get this thing to work ..." and I tell her that I also sometimes have problems using mine. Of course this was not true but I wanted to make her feel comfortable and relaxed. So she finally gets to the scripture and without me prompting her she starts reading it to me which surprised me. So once she finished I said "see what it said there in the beginning?" As I pointed to the word "was" on her tablet. I said "you notice it says "in the beginning the Word w-a-s ..."" as I emphasized the word "was." I could tell she was confused so I went on to explain how "in the beginning" before anything or anyone was created Jesus, as the Word, already existed. She paused and looked at the scripture and pondered what I had just told her. But I don't believe she got it. So I explained it again. At which point she just stared at her tablet as if I had just told her she won the lottery. No joke. She just stared at the scripture for a few moments without saying anything. So as I tried explaining the scripture a bit more she stopped me with a wave of her hand and said "no, no, I see it, I'm just ...."

    So as she continued staring at her tablet and as I expounded a bit more on how only a created being can experience time, etc, etc. I noticed she started scrolling the footnotes to see if she could come up with an answer. Which she did and she said that it was speaking of Christ as the Word. This made no sense because this point was already agreed upon. But I let her continue and she said that "the "beginning" in this scripture is talking about the beginning of visible creation." I told her that this was inaccurate and she should look up the original Greek and she would see that it's speaking of the beginning of all creation spiritual and material. I said that in order to understand the bible we have to read it as a whole and it must interpret itself without talking scriptures out of context. Believe it or not she never stopped scrolling and at this point her little fingers looked tired from having to go through a lot of footnotes to no avail. So I now directed her to Micah 5:2 all the while making small talk about not remembering the exact scriptures, weather, etc.

    So she pulls up Micah 5:2 and I explain that the last words in this scripture that read as "from the days of long ago" in the original Hebrew the word used is "eon" (which I now see I was mistaken. I should have told her "oulm") which is another word for "eternity" and "everlasting." I explained that some bibles used Eternity and some used Everlasting but that they all meant the same. That Jesus never had a beginning. But I told her whatever the case may be to just look up the original Hebrew to see what the meaning really is. I almost blurted out and said that her translation was corrupt but I stopped myself.

    So as she's reading and rereading Micah I start explaining that she should not believe me but rather look up the original Hebrew and Greek for herself. And also that biblical Greek could not possibly have John 1:1 read as "a god" with a lowercase "g" because it was written in all capital letters. Moreover, I explained that John from reading the OT knew and understood that God was only one. And yet he wrote his epistle describing a second Righteous God in Christ as did Isaiah. So I said if Christ was not created and he is also considered a righteous God, then scripture is describing Jesus as God too!

    I actually felt bad for this poor lady. As noticed she was having some major cognitive dissonance and her head was literally spinning. So after a brief pause I asked her to promise me she would look up the information I gave her which she did promise me. At which point she started to walk away backwards slowly and as I thought she would turn and leave she asked if I was usually home at that time on that particular day. I said I was. She said she would be back next week at the same time and day. I wished her well and off she went to her waiting ride. I guess she forgot all about me attending the memorial.

    This old lady looked to be a member of many years as it's very rare for people her age to be converted. And she was alone so she definitely had some experience. I just pray that I opened her eyes just a little. But then again as I was talking to her I could see the person driving her inside the car with other older members eyeballing me. Just the look on this male friend driver tells me even if this lady attempted to speak on what I revealed to her he would probably belittle what I said perhaps even mock me. These male maggots are like that. I just hope I at least sparked her curiosity opening her mind with a solid argument.

  • blondie

    I wonder if other jws have checked the rest of their brains at the door; my mother had to learn a seven scripture to use at the door in the mid-50's. Changed later on because so many people at the door were to busy to listen that long. Now even a 15 second introduction is too long. Now they can't use the bible just an i-pad. What if the power went off and no one could charge their device? Are jws told to hide their i-pad in case of persecution?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Well done Tenacious!

  • Ding

    Not that long ago, JWs loved to get into doctrinal discussions.

    Nowadays a lot of them freak out if they get challenged on anything.

  • Tenacious

    @ blondie: Yeah, it was kinda funny seeing this old lady fumble with her tablet. Had she had a bible she could have whipped up that scripture in the blink of an eye! That's the training we all received. We could handle the bible (in a physical sense) with the best of them. Couldn't explain the scriptures but we could sure find them quickly!

    @ Sea Breeze: Thanks. Inside I was shaking and as I pointed things out on her tablet I looked at my hands to make sure they weren't trembling. It was kinda weird being a member for almost 3 decades to be on the other side of the equation. But I felt really good about it all.

    @ Ding: Yeah, that's what I found weird about this encounter. She seemed to have been a witness since Rutherford's days but she just seemed dumbfounded when I pointed out the inconsistencies. I hope I made her think.

  • Phizzy

    " Nowadays a lot of them freak out if they get challenged on anything." Very true, they simply are not equipped to argue doctrine for themselves, and the JW Org does not of course touch on arguments it will lose.

    So well done Tenny my boy ! The old dear may well do some research, I hope !

    As to freaking out when challenged, this is not just with JayDubs, I have seen on other Forums where believers have labeled challenges as " Hate Comments", when the comments are not aimed at them as a person, but simply their silly beliefs.

  • tiki

    That is excellent! Food for thought surely.

    Question...are they supposed to use tablets instead of real bibles nowadays? If this lady would find scripture scrambling simpler with the actual book seems to me that would be a better choice for her....

  • My Name is of No Consequence
    My Name is of No Consequence

    Way to go Tenacious! You treated her with respect and she stuck around and listened to you. Who knows?

  • Tenacious

    @ Phizzy: Thanks!

    @ tiki: Because of the reduction in literature so the GB can save money they don't give a hoot if members want to switch over they are obligated to. I truly wonder how this change is going in third world countries where people hardly have money to eat much less for tablets.

    @ My Name is of No Consequence: The best approach is to act as if you've never studied or talked with any JW. What I notice is as soon as you start prodding them with questions about their doctrine they get inquisitive and start asking about who, when, how, and where. They attempt to find out how you know about all their doctrines and if you happen to be an apostate. They turn into inspector gadget right on the spot. It's funny to see. Me, I just played the role

  • Finkelstein

    The JWS memorial is just a mis-interpretation of the 144,000 anointed ones.

    By Scripture all dedicated followers of Jesus Christ who are baptized in his name are to partake.

    Its just another screw up by the leaders of the WTS , there are many to be sure.

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