Why facts fail to reach the faithful, (even the intelligent ones)

by done4good 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  done4good

  I posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...Thoughts?

  An unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact. Survival is at the core of what belief is about. In the biological sense, belief is an extension of our psyche beyond our five senses and what can be directly observed by them, (as is intuition, however intuition is based on abstracted information by those senses, belief is not). Animals that are potential prey do not reason. They react to perceived danger. They choose to believe a certain danger exists, based on limited input, (such as the sound of the trees or plants around them moving = a predator that wants to eat them), as opposed to reason whether the danger is real or not. This allows them a better chance of survival, and preserves the species over time.

  Humans have evolved a conscience and the ability to reason, however in the evolutionary sense, this is a recently developed ability. Our most primal instincts are to survive first. If we look at this from the perspective of Maslow's hierarchy of human needs, survival is the most basic, being a physiological need. This is followed by the needs for safety, love, esteem, and finally, self-actualization. Accepting facts is the centerpiece of what self-actualization is all about. Most humans never even get to this level, since rarely are all of the lower level human needs met sufficiently. To expect humans to care about facts at the risk of their survival is precisely why humans react to cognitive dissonance by digging in deeper, and even more resolved to ignore facts when we push them on this. The reality is, their belief, (however misguided and dangerous it might be), is regarded as a safety net to protect them. When facts are presented that cause them cognitive dissonance, they become fearful that their belief system, (their safety net), is at risk of failing. Their first instinct is to rebuild that net, at all costs. Even the most intelligent people are at risk of this self-delusion, because of its relationship with basic primal survival needs.

  All ideologies, (religious, political, etc.), are very suspect to this type of logical fallacy.

  d4g
  
• 

  DJS

  done4good,

  Great OP. The OP of the year so far. A lot of us have been saying this for a while. You've said it best. Thank you. My Theist wall, as expected, was primarily built of JW bricks. Once I got rid of all of them, the only thing remaining were a few cornerstones and the foundation - belief in the bible, god and/or a 'hereafter'. As you stated, that first stone removed from the theist wall/foundation is done so with the understanding that it all may come down. It may not be for the faint of heart, and there are evolutionary reasons why this is so.

  I methodically removed each stone, examined it - and when I found it wanting - cast it away. Then I dug up the foundation and threw that away. No emotion. No looking back. And the best thing I have ever accomplished.

  Again, well done.
• 

  Darkknight757

  An unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact. Survival is at the core of what belief is about.

  Agreed!! People need to know there is a purpose in life no matter how ridiculous it may seem. To believe that Gods original purpose will be fulfilled seems reasonable if we put our trust in the story of Adam and Eve.

  I think that is why you hear so many say "What better hope could we have?"

  Its a sad, diluted way to live. Thinking that your life is more important than billions.

  
  
  
• 

  cofty

  Really interesting post, thanks.

  I think the same applies to any challenge to JW beliefs. Intuitively the person can see the cascade of consequences without even having to think it through.

  For example .....

  "This fact seems to show that the blood doctrine is wrong... therefore this can't be "The Truth" and therefore;
  A WHOLE LOT OF SCARY THINGS I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT!

  Before these things can even be entertained the person blocks the trigger thought in an instant with no regard to the actual facts.

  It's understandable. I recall when I had hospital tests a few years ago, when I came round from the anaesthetic I was met by a specialist nurse with a bunch of leaflets of the, "So now you're F***ed Here are 10 Things You Need to Know" variety.

  Logic says I should have read them avidly and asked lots of questions. What I actually did was to politely decline them and tell her if she gave me a card I would be in touch when I was ready to talk. She was wise enough to agree.

  Sometimes temporary denial has it's place.

  Reassuring believers that reality is ok is the challenge. If they are not ready then that's fine too.

  
  
• 

  The Rebel

  Done4good " humuns have developed a concience and the ability to reason.....,our most primal instinct is to survive first"

  The Rebel:- I believe humuns like animals don't rationalise, they instinctively feel. Both animals and humuns " ethical and moral concience " even from the beginning of creation has been to sacrifice life for a sibling.

  As for facts, I believe they are so far beyound the grasp of the humun mind, and we don't learn them from our parents nor our education system, anymore than we learn them in the nine months we spend in our mothers stomach. We leave our mothers belly and we learn to think and we learn to change our mind....

  The Rebel.
• 

  done4good

  The Rebel - Done4good " humans have developed a concience and the ability to reason.....,our most primal instinct is to survive first"

  The Rebel:- I believe humans like animals don't rationalise, they instinctively feel. Both animals and humans " ethical and moral conscience " even from the beginning of creation has been to sacrifice life for a sibling.

  The part of the two sentences lost to the ellipsis is key. Our most primal instincts, (which have existed in the animal kingdom for hundreds of millions of years), have allowed species, (including humans), to exist a very long time. These instincts are much more powerful, than the relatively recently evolved conscious awareness that humans are capable of using.This is why that conscious awareness does not play a dominant role in situations where a human perceives something to be threatening, (such as something that might bring their belief system into serious question).
  

  d4g
  
• 

  done4good

  Cofty - It's understandable. I recall when I had hospital tests a few years ago, when I came round from the anaesthetic I was met by a specialist nurse with a bunch of leaflets of the, "So now you're F***ed Here are 10 Things You Need to Know" variety.

  
  

  Logic says I should have read them avidly and asked lots of questions. What I actually did was to politely decline them and tell her if she gave me a card I would be in touch when I was ready to talk. She was wise enough to agree.

  Sometimes temporary denial has it's place.

  Agreed, and this is a key reason we need to be aware of why trying to "force" facts on someone can be potentially dangerous. A person needs to be ready to accept them.

  d4g
  

  
  
• 

  The Rebel

  done4good " the part of the two sentences lost in the ellipsis is key"

  The Rebel, sorry about that, and I apologise if I inadvertently in my post took your comment out of context.

  The Rebel.
• 

  done4good

  DJS - I methodically removed each stone, examined it - and when I found it wanting - cast it away. Then I dug up the foundation and threw that away. No emotion. No looking back. And the best thing I have ever accomplished.

  This is a process, and takes time. It took about 5 years for me, after leaving the JWs.

  d4g
  
• 

  galaxie

  Like all investments fear plays a large part ie what happens if the investment fails. As JWs we invested in a hope in which we were assured we would capitalize given we stuck to the rules of investment. Anything which threatened that outcome was seen as an attack on our judgement , that's why it is nigh on impossible to get a jw to cede on a contra point. The instinct to survive being stronger than cognitive reasoning