JW anti-gay children movie viral in Netherlands national media + official reaction of JW spokesman Branch office

by Gorbatchov 62 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  freemindfade

  How dare you fail to be outraged steve2

  When things like this are said simon it is clear that there is criticism that anyone outraged is over reacting.

  Its not anger that this is new doctrine. Its the filth of making a kids cartoon about it. No they don't say hate gays. So what? It's a clear message aimed at children. Its a step further and the outrage should exist. Maybe when tm3 spewed his rhetoric some of you said the same thing. Its nothing new. But how many that have woken up sinc then reference it as a turning point??? Why soften a wt mistep by criticizing those who are shocked at the low they will sink to?

  Maybe the attention the issue receives is taking too much attention away from how great you can all argue endless semantics ad nauseam.
• 

  Simon

  When things like this are said simon it is clear that there is criticism that anyone outraged is over reacting.

  I think it's more that people who are over-reacting are over-reacting. Be as outraged as you want, just don't claim that the video says something that it doesn't or their beliefs are different to what they actually are and don't expect to be corrected.

  And aren't people equally criticizing anyone who "isn't outraged enough"?

  Why soften a wt mistep by criticizing those who are shocked at the low they will sink to?

  Why try to turn their misstep into something that it isn't and possible give people a reason to point and say "see, typical apostate lies" as a get-out.

  Before you know it, they will be the one's who are being oppressed and discriminated against. They are clever with what they say and what they don't, we have to be clever too and not fall into the easy trap of making ourselves look like the intolerant ones by overreaching with criticism.
• 

  freemindfade

  Why try to turn their misstep into something that it isn't and possible give people a reason to point and say "see, typical apostate lies" as a get-out.

  This is what disturbs me. Not that any of you don't think this is a big deal, but you are essentially saying anyone calling this cartoon production homophobic is "lying". If you don't believe this video promotes discrimination at a child level go watch it again.

  Definition of homophobia. : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.
  
• 

  Simon

  This is what disturbs me. Not that any of you don't think this is a big deal, but you are essentially saying anyone calling this cartoon production homophobic is "lying".

  Nice attempt to twist things, you really are completely incapable of listening to what is actually said aren't you?

  What we have actually called out are the inaccurate claims that the video has statements in it that it simply doesn't and that the extra interpretation you add to it is somehow part of the video itself.

  That is entirely different to whether the video anti-gay in any way. Of course it is. But they have the right to believe whatever they want.

  Definition of homophobia: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

  To them, based on their religious beliefs, it is entirely rational to have an aversion to it because their bible tells them their god wants them to and they will miss out on paradise / die forever if they don't.

  Of course it's irrational to enlightened people, but it is not to them and, as they are not practicing discrimination by the video then there is no laws being broken or legal cause for it to be banned.

  Feel free to hashtag away about it, but media campaigns are more powerful if they are based on facts. When people find out the claims are bogus then it becomes negative publicity for the people making them instead and then you generate sympathy and possible interest for them.
• 

  freemindfade

  It shouldnt be banned. Only a feew decades ago most people wouldnt have a colorful cartoon to tell them how anti gay the witnesses really were. You'd have to ask the question and bring it up. Sure it was in the watchtower but who the hell read that??? Witnesses have always been masters at promoting specific doctrine and dogma in ambiguous language.

  This cartoons message is clear and I don't think people are reading too much into just because the wt legal team made sure they didn't use any specific hate words. It is a message of discrimination, a turd wrapped in shinny paper. It says volumes.
• 

  Simon

  So ... you think it promotes discrimination, but shouldn't be banned, and doesn't use any hate speech but is homophobic.

  I think you need to think your position through a little more.

  Here's mine:

  Conservative christian groups dislike for homosexuality is not news to anyone and on the overall scale of things the WTS isn't even at the extreme of what is typical for such groups but they should be free to hold the beliefs they do and teach them to their kids if they want. Unlucky kids, you have dumb parents, but it could be much worse.

  The rest of us can point out how out-of-touch they are with society as it heads in the opposite direction, mock them for it and use it as a way to highlight their peculiar and outdated beliefs.

  The only time government should step in is when they try to act out any of their beliefs in the form of actual discrimination and this is where real political battles are being fought right now.

  Finally, no one should be harassed for not hearing something that hasn't been said.
• 

  freemindfade

  It implies hate and it is them exercising their freedom of speech. Just like the kkk. Its ugly. But it is making it more evident to those outside what they are about.

  My position is its messed up and the noise its making is good and should not be complained about as lies. Just like the Noah cartoon gave the world a glance inside. I support this the same way I support tm3, I think its sick but the world is getting a glimpse inside.

  All i care about is the ugliness of this video not get dulled and sweapt away but continue to be viral for as long as it can. The effect that this can have inside the cult and at doors and at carts is good by me. A more visible manifestation of this crap religion.
• 

  Simon

  It implies hate and it is them exercising their freedom of speech. Just like the kkk. Its ugly. But it is making it more evident to those outside what they are about.

  Are you kidding me? The WTS is simply not comparable to a group that advocates violence against certain races and sexual orientations and has been responsible for terrorist attacks, shootings and lynchings and to claim they are "like them" is simply idiotic and laughable.

  The only thing they have in common is use of the 1st amendment right to free speech. But then you also enjoy that right too. Are you just like the kkk as well then?
• 

  cofty

  If the video was a mother explaining to her child how Muslims can't enter into paradise this forum would be beside itself in how "racist" it is.

  Not from me it wouldn't.

  Islam isn't a race.

  Any religion has the right to assert that everybody else is doomed. It's what religions do. Muslims especially.

  By your strict definition of homophobic the bible is homophobic as is the quran.

  Those who hold the bible or quran to be god's word - JWs, 100,000,000 American Evangelicals and 1.6 billion Muslims - are by definition homophobic.

  Muslims throw their gay men from tall buildings.
• 

  talesin

  Muslims throw their gay men from tall buildings.

  Speaking of hyperbole ...

  Sounds like the JWS to me - publicly condemn (punishable by figurative 'death' of banishment), yet there is a double standard.   Throwing them off tall buildings ... y-e-e-es,, I see what you mean .... 

  From The Atlantic

  http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/

  This legal and public condemnation notwithstanding, the kingdom leaves considerable space for homosexual behavior. As long as gays and lesbians maintain a public front of obeisance to Wahhabist norms, they are left to do what they want in private. Vibrant communities of men who enjoy sex with other men can be found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Riyadh. They meet in schools, in cafés, in the streets, and on the Internet. “You can be cruised anywhere in Saudi Arabia, any time of the day,” said Radwan, a 42-year-old gay Saudi American who grew up in various Western cities and now lives in Jeddah. “They’re quite shameless about it.” Talal, a Syrian who moved to Riyadh in 2000, calls the Saudi capital a “gay heaven.”