JW, soul and free will

by inbetween 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  inbetween

  Good morning,

  when it comes to the question of free will, any JW will ascertain the existence of free will as needed for any moral issue regarding God, the bible etc. Without free will the whole foundation of what their belief is based on will collapse.

  Now atheists, at least thats my understanding, deny also the existence of free will. If everything is just governed by natural laws, then it will follow its course, there is no superiorty of human conscience, as it followed just the evolving species, and may only be an illusion, and one knowing a current state is able to predict the future (Demon of Laplace).

  One example of a scientists viewpoint:

  You don't have free will, but don't worry. - YouTube

  Now JW agree with atheist in one matter, that there is no soul surviving human death, humans are only made of "dust". So if humans are only made of atoms and moleculs, which are subject to laws of Physics, were is the free will located then?

  A dilemma even for some PIMI witnesses I talked to (at least the thinkers among them).

  Also quantum physics do not provide a way out, since unpredictability does not equate free will.

  What are your ideas?
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  truth_b_known

  "Freewill is an illusion."

  Just about everything is an illusion manufactured by the brain. The brain is a fascinating thing. It is an organ that, like all other organs of the body, has one function - keep the whole body alive.

  In the programming world there is an old saying - "Garbage in. Garbage out." Erroneous data will cause problems for us. Our brain is constantly looking for that which will benefit us. Bad data such as "You can live forever on paradise Earth" may have a negative effect. Sure, living forever in paradise sounds great to the brain. So the brain wants that. It wants it even if there are horrible costs and negative outcomes from trying to get it.

  "Morality" is a function self preservation through mutual benefit. Humans are social creatures. Acting in such a way that benefits others rather than harms other furthers one's own wellbeing. Empathy is a product of evolution.

  I have even seen data that shows electrical activity in the brain has action taking place prior to the brain being aware. The example given was electrical activity was measured in the portion of the brain that caused the subjects hand to move took place a fraction of a second before the portion of the brain that registers movement activated. In short - the hand before the brain realized the hand was moving.
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  JoenB75

  In his sermon "Free will - a slave" Spurgeon basically pins down free will belief as a rebellious idea. Being a Calvinist believing in (T)otal Depravity, he sees man as unable to come to Christ due to his evil nature. The will would certainly not help, he says; "The will is well known by all to be directed by the understanding, to be moved by motives, to be guided by other parts of the soul, and to be a secondary thing. Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will;". Or as I say the will is motivated by (too) many things.

  Although I don’t believe man is totally depraved, I see free will as a wishful idea that is a double edged sword concerning the way we see ourselves and others; we may feel high and mighty about our free will power if we have success and then if we don’t, the blame is all on us down to our "free will".

  Not all believers rejecting free will believe in immortal soulism. A. E. Knoch and the Concordant group associated with him taught (teaches - the group is still there, he is of course long gone) mortal soulism and universal salvation.
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  Nephilim87

  Good morning.

  I think man is neither inherently good or inherently evil. I think it's the decisions that we make that determine this. To use a Bible example, I don't think Abel was good or Cain was bad it was their decisions that made them.

  I think every decision we make is a spiritual one whether we know it or not. I have made bad decisions and suffered the consequences and I have made good decisions that I know have helped me in this life.

  It really is a combination of your heart and mind at the end of the day that we all have to deal with.
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  truth_b_known

  I think man is neither inherently good or inherently evil.

  "Good and evil" are religious inventions. A personal god dictates what is "good" and what is "bad". The reality is there is what is beneficial and what is harmful. The ultimate benefit is one that is mutually beneficial.

  I think every decision we make is a spiritual one whether we know it or not. I have made bad decisions and suffered the consequences and I have made good decisions that I know have helped me in this life.

  That sums it up perfectly. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys". There are only people. What they do is what matters.
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  peacefulpete

  Sadly the lady in the video has overlooked emergent aspects of consciousness and self identity. Unique abilities can and do arise from fundamental properties. Despite much instinct or behavior taking place at an unconscious level, we have evolved useful software floating above that. A reflexive self recognition as a being shaped by countless contingencies. The more aware we are of how profoundly we are influenced by these contingencies, i.e. culture,genetic and association the more we become aware of alternatives. Alternatives are evaluated by there very acknowledgement. IOW a person practiced in self awareness can over rule the inclination for snap judgement and prejudice.
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  truth_b_known

  Who is the "I" who is thinking?

  Who is asking?

  That is the Gateless Gate.