The problem is more whether the concept of 'before a beginning' is even useful, and it certainly doesn't imply a 'causer'.
Doesn't imply a Causer? What kind of a beginning doesn't have a cause?
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry 160 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Perry
-
Fisherman
no matter how you cause it, logic demands something to have always existed. (unless you are a zealous worshiper of a theory and science fiction.) -
Village Idiot
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy". - Hamlet
-
GrreatTeacher
I think I know why this is so important to you: you have started at the end - I believe in god - and are now going backwards looking for data that supports your conclusion (that you somehow, in contravention of logic and reason, have started with.) -
Perry
I agree Fisherman. "Eternity" or timelessness (are they different?) must have always been posited somewhere. We can clearly discern that from the things that we can see - a beginning.
His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made - Romans 1: 20
-
Mephis
Doesn't imply a Causer? What kind of a beginning doesn't have a cause?
Causer. That something begins doesn't imply a causer. Otherwise you'd have to have a God for God ad infinitum, wouldn't you?
-
Finkelstein
If god always existed from time indefinite, what was it or this god doing before it created the universe ?
I think personally the exact solid reason for the beginning of the universe is still not completely known with solid confidence, that too falls into intelligently honesty.
-
TheLiberator
Interestingly, if you go online, some are starting to think the universe always existed. "This is exciting, what a great way to get rid of God!" Maybe I should translate that a little different:
Psalm: 2:3. "Let's break their bonds apart, and cast their cords from us."
Anyway, what is ironic, is that we hear all the drones say, "Who created God?"
So we can say that the universe always existed. Umm...we don't have a problem with that.... Ummm....but "Who created God?"...umm...hmmm...yeah...ok
-
Perry
That something begins doesn't imply a causer.
Why don't we see things beginning now without causes? If they are unnecessary for beginnings, we should be able to see many examples of this.
-
Perry
Interestingly, if you go online, some are starting to think the universe always existed. "This is exciting, what a great way to get rid of God!" Maybe I should translate that a little different:
Liberator, the "steady state" theory of an eternal universe is the OLD theory that was demolished by Einstein, Hubble, expanding universe etc.
The universe had a beginning as is "clearly seen". Those continuing the eternal universe concept are not in the majority.
But your point is well taken on the bias of eternal concepts.