The universe can be observed to be expanding.
An expanding universe must have had a beginning.
Whatever begins to exist had a cause.
Therefore the universe was caused by something.
What Caused the Universe to exist?
Beliefs About What Caused the Universe
by Perry 160 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
So what? -
GrreatTeacher
Indeed, and what caused th Causer to exist? -
Perry
Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves - Ps. 100:3
what caused the Causer to exist?
The Causer that caused the Space-Time Universe to exist must by necessity exist apart from space-time. Otherwise if he was part of the space-time system, then he would have had a beginning and would also have need of a cause.
Existing outside of the space-time universe solves the problem of needing a first-cause for our observable existence, while at the same time providing insight into the uniqueness of this first cause.
Isaiah 45:5-6 - I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.... from the rising of the sun, and from the west, there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
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GrreatTeacher
"must by necessity?" exist outside of space-time?
Either that, or there was no first cause, but a rather slow arising of organic chemical compounds along the lines of the way we know things work in organic chemistry.
Why would one go to the extreme of jumping out of space-time!?!
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Finkelstein
Isaiah 45:5-6 - I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.... from the rising of the sun, and from the west, there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
So Perry you know with full unremitting confidence of how the Universe began by reading what some bronzed age ignorant ancient said 3000 years ago ?
Does that sound like a logical and intellectually honest assertion ?
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Perry
Which is more extreme?
A. Imagining things coming into existence without a cause
B. Imagining a first cause existing beyond our cause and effect (space/time) universe
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Mephis
Only the universe having a beginning isn't news. The problem is more whether the concept of 'before a beginning' is even useful, and it certainly doesn't imply a 'causer'.
Here's a simple truth. To perform an action, any action, takes time - no matter how brief a moment or how long. Linear time began with the big bang so far as our physics allows us to tell currently. So how is an action performed in the absence of time? No matter where one inserts it into the process, 'God magic' will never be a useful answer.
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Simon
I think the most extreme is imagining a super and ultimately complex being somehow never had to come into existence. -
GrreatTeacher
Don't be disingenuous.
We all know your belief is that the first cause is God with a capital G.
That is not at all the same conversation that scientists are having about the beginning of the universe.