Challenge to Creationists

by cofty 147 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  prologos

  cofty: "-- Entropy will decrease in a closed system.??

  from the linked article: "eventually, the system arrives at a state of maximum entropy called “thermodynamic equilibrium,” in which energy is uniformly distributed. A cup of coffee and the room it sits in become the same temperature, for example. As long as the cup and the room are left alone, this process is irreversible. The coffee never spontaneously heats up again because the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against so much of the room’s energy randomly concentrating in its atoms. (Jeremy England)

  His theory is compatible with the deist stance that the shape of the universe, and the workings of life are inherent characteristics of Nature. creation.
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  cofty

  Now for the endosymbiotic hypothesis: ... We cannot demonstrate the process in a lab - Vidqun

  Yes we can. Endosymbiosis has been observed in the lab.

  
  
  
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  cofty

  Prologos - I have rarely seen a more conspicuous example of confirmation bias.

  It's as if you deliberately misunderstood the article.

  Look for the video on YouTube maybe that will help.

  it seems to my humble mind that it has not slowed, but rather done a 180 and gone backwards within our supposed closed system to the point of reversing itself and creating order - Sanchy

  Yes that is correct and in no way conflicts with the laws of thermodynamics. It is not a "supposed" closed system.
  
  
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  Vidqun

  If you say so Cofty. I see that it has moved up from hypothesis to theory. Still not a law or fact. From there a follow-up question: What would happen to the nuclear material of the organism(s) that became organelles? Would it be absorbed by the nuclear material of the host cell? Sounds a lot like gene splicing to me. By what process would it happen? I know the geneticists can do that. Question is, would a single-celled organism be able to accomplish such a feat?
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  cofty

  Now for the endosymbiotic hypothesis: ... We cannot demonstrate the process in a lab - Vidqun

  Yes we can. Endosymbiosis has been observed in the lab. - Me

  If you say so Cofty. - Vidqun

  Are you not even curious enough to ask for details? Is this not your professional field?

  What would happen to the nuclear material of the organism(s) that became organelles?

  Some of the genes were transferred to the nucleus of the host cell and some of the genes are still active in the mitochondria for very good reason.

  
  
  
  
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  prologos

  May be I did misunderstand. a video would not help my old mind. here is what I understood: Any system dead or alive, will grow in such a way to decrease entropy, and it will do that by favouring the increasing of shedding of excess heat, like an elephant growing bigger ears to have more air flowing over the veins carrying the evaporation - cooled blood. This growth of the right area is a build - in mechanism in nature, dead or alive. It is in the nature of things. or?

  cofty: "-- Entropy will decrease in a closed system.?? disorder will decrease in a closed system? = order will increase in a closed system?
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  cofty

  Hi Prologos.

  I would have to reread the article to answer your question. I don't know if Jeremy England's hypothesis will prove to be correct but if it does it is massive. It should certainly give pause to any believers who take comfort in abiogenesis.
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  prologos

  C: "--It should certainly give pause to any believers who take comfort in abiogenesis.--" or comfort to those that believe that creation is more ingenious than we imagined. Thank you for the article bsw.

  I still think you erred in saying 3 hours ago:
  cofty: "-- Entropy will decrease in a closed system.--" errare humanum est?.
  
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  cofty

  Yes I see your point prologos. Thank you

  I should stick to biology!
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  Sanchy

  Yes that is correct and in no way conflicts with the laws of thermodynamics.

  
  

  Well, I don't completely agree with this... and one day I'll be able to explain why I dont :)