by Hairtrigger 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Hairtrigger

    Did you know that when Einstein attended some conferences in the numerous universities of the USA, the recurring question that the students asked him was:

    - Do you believe in God?

    And he always answered:

    - I believe in the God of Spinoza.

    For the ones who haven't read Spinoza

    hope this shall give them an idea.

    Baruch De Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher, of Portuguese Jewish origin, considered one of the great rationalists of his time along with the French philosopher Rene Descartes. Spinoza was born in Amsterdam in the 17th century of a businessman father who was successful but not wealthy.

    This is the nature of the God of Spinoza:

    God would have said:

    "Stop praying and giving yourselves blows on your chests, what I want you to do is to go out into the world to enjoy your life.

    I want you to enjoy, you sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've done for you.

    Stop going to those gloomy, dark and cold temples that you built yourself and that you call my home.

    My house is in the mountains, in the forests, the rivers, the lakes, the beaches. That's where I live and express all my love for you.

    Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you that you were a sinner.

    Stop being so scared. I do not judge you, nor criticize you, nor ever is angry with you, nothing bothers me, nor do I devise punishment. I am pure love.

    Stop asking me forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... of free will, how can I blame you if you do or say something out of that what I put in you? How can I punish you for being as you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who misbehave, for the rest of eternity?

    What kind of God can do that?

    Forget about any kind of commandments, of any kind of laws; those are wiles to manipulate you, to control you and only to create guilt in you.

    Respect your peers and don't do to others what you don't want for you. The only thing I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that your alert status is your guide. This life is the only thing there is, here and now and the only thing you need.

    I have made you absolutely free, there are no prizes or punishments, there are no sins or virtues, no one carries a marker, no one carries a record.

    You are absolutely free to create in your life a heaven or hell.

    I couldn't tell you if there's anything after this life, but I can give you a tip. Live as if there wasn't.

    As if this was your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.

    So, if there is nothing, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, be sure that I will not ask you if you behaved well or not, I will ask you. Did you like it?... did you have fun ?..What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...

    Stop believing in me; believe is to assume, guess, imagine. I don't want you to believe in me, I want you to feel me when you kiss your beloved, when you play with your little girl, when you love your dog, when you bathe in the sea.

    Stop praising me. What kind of egotistical God do you think I am?

    I'm bored of your praise, I'm fed up with thanks . Do you feel grateful? Prove it taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world around you. Do you feel overwhelmed?... Express your joy! That's the way to praise me.

    The only thing sure is that you are here, that you are alive, that this world is full of wonders.

    What do you need more miracles for?

    Why so many explanations?

    Don't look for me outside, you won't find me. Find me inside... there I'm beating in you."

    Baruch De Spinoza

    Got this from a “pass-on”on watts app. Thought it might interest some.

    Something I identify with.

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Spinoza was an important thinker from the 17th century removing the last traces of medievalism from rational thought and disagreeing with Pascale's duality of mind-body. He was later described as a "pantheist" meaning God in everything (and not meaning all Gods). His idea avoids a personal identity of God. One thing concerns me on his apparent belief in a god is that he would not have had a voice at all if he were considered to be atheist living at the time he did.

    Einstein's reply to the question on theism is nearly as good as the clever compromise Spinoza made on God's existence.

  • stillin

    I studied Spinoza in college. One of the students, a hard-core Christian, was offended by Spinoza. He chimed in to the discussion, trying to make a point for Jesus and God. The teacher says, "if your God is so perfect, why is there tooth decay?" The kid was shattered.

    Unfortunately for me, a few years later the Witnesses came along with a pseudo-answer to that question and I got hooked in.

  • waton

    Even with this logical attitude, shaped by Spinoza's writing, Albert Einstein's main drive was ro perfect our understanding of the laws of nature or of the creator, because by knowing these laws we succeed.

    The universe rewards success

  • Giordano

    Interesting and thoughtful I guess I agree with Spinoza......l I'll have whatever he's drinking.

    Thanks for sharing Hair-trigger I'll have what ever your shooting.

  • TD

    Einstein believed in god as a principle rather than a personality, which is very, very, different than Christianity.

    For any who are interested (Or are inclined to argue) I would heartily recommend Einstein And Religion by Max Jammer,

    Jammer, knew him very well and was the only person in recent years who could speak authoritively on the subject.

  • Xanthippe

    Quotes by Einstein are a popular facebook meme. I don't know if he really agreed with Spinoza but I like Spinoza' s ideas.

    How could a being capable of creating a universe care who his creatures mate with? Who they loved or what they did with their lives?

    Egoists rarely accomplish anything so why would such an intelligent creative being be an egoist? Why would he want some of his animals to build temples and sing praises to him? Just stupid, I agree.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    Spinoza's god and Einstein's belief are relatively close to modern Judaism: God exists but he doesn't need you, be a good person and that will prove you believe in God, or 'everything you do could be an act of worship'.

    Spinoza then takes it a step further and says "there is no virtue, you are absolutely free" which I personally don't believe is true. Sure, we are free to make our own choices, but without virtue those choices are unguided and would be of no consequence.

    Now, I don't think we need a god to create or hold these virtues (which is the basis of all faiths), rather I believe these virtues evolved and are relatively plastic because otherwise we wouldn't be able to ask the question whether they're virtuous and if they didn't evolve, our virtues would be rigid throughout history. So virtues come from forming a society (they're necessary for each other), which flows into politics, the forces to change or defend these virtues which then flows into religion to codify and transmit the virtues.

  • Still Totally ADD
    Still Totally ADD

    Thank you Hairtrigger for this enlightment of Spinoza. Never heard of him until now. I agree with many things he wrote. What a different world this would be if humans would have followed this instead of the dogma of the world religions. Great way to start a Sunday morning. Still Totally ADD

  • TD
    Spinoza's god and Einstein's belief are relatively close to modern Judaism: God exists but he doesn't need you...

    Again, Einstein rejected belief in a personal God. No personality. No volition. No he.

    Only abstract principle

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