by Ruby456 9 Replies latest jw friends
I think Pilate was being Socratic when he asked Jesus - what is truth?
my question is to do with whether or not Jesus was also being Socratic when he said he had come to bear witness to the truth. My idea is that both Pilate and Jesus were talking about a kind of ethics to live. what do you all think?
I think that possibly they were more in agreement than not - sort of like two cultures agreeing on something
I always reckon he was replying in a shoulder-shrugging resigned kind of manner...similar to the way someone would say "Oh, what's the point?" when no answer can be given.
He certainly was not actually asking for an answer.
" WHAT IS TRUTH" re Pilate to Jesus.
What a brilliantt observation to that question " Ruby"
You assume in your question both were " talking about a kind of ethics to live by" so let's take your " two cultures" statement further. Jesus was a carpenter, Pilate lived in a clean, splendid palace, and had servants to clean. But both once had mummy to clean the diapers. One of these men a carpenter had become a " King" and this impressed Pilate who was born a " king"
So let's speculate. Maybe by Pilates question " What is truth?" he was asking " What makes a great man?" and Jesus reply " I have come to bear witness to the ( that ) truth" And Jesus answer which was a kind of insane rhetoric about self- reliance impressed Pilate...and he tried to " half heartedly" save Jesus, because he admired the man.
What I find interesting with Pilate, he obviously admired Jesus. I also believe, by raising the question if Pilate thought Jesus was anything more than a " man" he would have humbled himself and actually saved the " son of God". So my conclusion,Jesus never convinced Pilate he was anything other than a man, yet Pilates question was sincere.
The Rebel.
I thought that too stuckinarut2, and you are probably correct.
but I'm musing over Pilate's actions after he asked "what is truth?" because his next action was to go out to the crowd and tell that he found no basis for a charge against Jesus. so could it be that he was actually acting in harmony with truth?
http://biblehub.com/niv/john/18.htm
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
hi rebel
great points. I agree that pilate was probably sincere hence his actions afterwards as I have explained above. I'm taking truth somewhat as you are and i like the thought of Pilate asking what makes a great man as your reasoning fits what I am exploring with this. Pilate would have been familiar with Socratic ideas such as that a person needs to know himself and work out in his life a sort of commitment to living life as an authentic person.
What I am asking is if it is possible that Jesus was also replying along the same lines. Testifying to truth in this sense then would be, I am arguing, to live an authentic life in harmony with whatever principles or ethics one thinks important so long as one, like Pilate, and Jesus were prepared to speak about even when there was risk invovlved.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
You are correct, Pilate was being Socratic in the way he responded to Jesus claim. His main concern was that Jesus was trying to start a rebellion by claiming to be the King of the Jews. Jesus response was a theological one, where he did claim to be king, just not of this world.
This is why Pilate found no guilt [as to the accusations made by the Pharisees] for the claim of being King.
Greek Philosophers have long struggled with the question of "the Logos" in other words, the one element that unites all things together. The Logos was another way of saying "the Truth" Jesus was essentially claiming to be that Truth that unites all things. Thus making him King or supreme over all things.
good catch guys as I'm not emphasizing the Socratic method but Socratic ideas. But the idea living of a life of trying to know oneself/authenticity is actually older than Socrates because it was written in the courtyard of the temple of Apollo at Delphi and was well known to educated Romans.
And I guess the rhetorical aspect of Pliate's reply could indicate shared understanding between himself and Jesus (they'd already spent quite a lot of testing time together). Rhetoric did not have the same dismissive resignation that it has today in a situation like that as it could also be used to indicate that both parties were on the same wavelength although one party could be indicating a measure of resignation and the other something profound because at the end of day Pilate did hand Jesus over to the crowd.
as often happens in such shared ethical understanding a controversy results and one person dies for their ethics and the other lives for their ethics. I guess this is like being in an infinite game if each has infinity in mind -provided that they have chosen to live their ethics of knowing oneself/seeking authenticity to the end.
Could this be the logos (rationality) you are talking about, saved_jw?
guys I have alot more to say on this subject so any takers.
was reading an article about what motivated Gandhi and wondered if his sort of ethics were universal and were an inherent aspect of human existence and so tried to see if Socrates was onto something similar cos of his leanings towards more atheistic conceptions of living and life. takers
