Why don't you do anything? (page 6)

nicolaou

And God promised the meek would inherit the Earth. Guess what?

talesin

To the OP:

Ex-JWs are secretive. The real organizing goes on, but is only, at times, alluded to here. I don't visit other sites or groups. The people who talk a lot, aren't very good at organizing.

The larger the group gets, the less 'in touch' we are as a unit.

Most of us are escapees from a cult. As such, many of us treasure our autonomy, and have trust issues. Following instructions (ie, in cult-think 'orders') is anathema to many. Socialization is a big part of our healing, so coalescing into an organized group, with more clearly-defined goals, and a mission statement per se, can seem like pie in the sky.

We did have a very successful online letter-writing campaign when the WT released the "diseased apostates" article, and even made the front page of some famous atheist's site (was it Hitchens?).

I think that focused efforts like that can be very effective, and communication could spread wildly via PM. If we could trust one another enough. And that, to me, is a big 'if'.

That's not a criticism, just my observations after 13 or so years, and seeing changes and trends. xx

cyberjesus

I guess you are talking to the wrong people.. who you really want to reach is the GB

talesin

*waves hello to CJ* :D

WireRider

nicolaou - I don't believe in any religion the has to threaten and intimidate and brainwash people to stay when they don't want to and don't believe in it. Why are those programs carefully used and enforced? Force people into "special" committees, hearings, tribunals to scare the crap out of people to follow their human rules. Out of fear - very few even get that far. Force people to stay to control the herd.

The WT is not God - they have never spoken to God - he NEVER chose them for anything at all, and have no right to judge people or impose their selfish human rules on people that don't want it. The Watchtower ARE the false prophets the Bible warns about - and to burn in the lake of fire with Satan. Nice group to defend. From the book they claim to advocate - but heavily edit just to support their needs. The book was assembled by Catholics - a religion they loath and rail against for kicking out Arius - but they still use THEIR book. The WT is not Christian - if anything they are Jewish - believe in YHWH but not the divinity of Jesus - that is Jewish. But then again you had Rutherford who was sending fan mail to Hitler for killing Jews - ironic. But he did adopt Hitler's brainwashing and extreme propaganda and control from the Hitler youth program for kids - why do you think all of your holidays were canceled?

The Watchtower is so scared shitless that people will find out the truth and leave (or infect the herd) that they forbid holidays in which members may socialize with real people - preach hate against other religions to keep them away and forbid members from every going to a Church - they cannot even call their own buildings Churches - not allowed to - they are not Churches. They are indoctrination centers. Here - read my questions out loud and then read my answers out loud. huh? It's behavioral training.

Religion is a spiritual following - not how many cows you can shove into a pen - and keep them from ever getting out - or from ever finding out there is an out.

nicolaou

I don't believe in any religion the has to threaten and intimidate and brainwash people to stay when they don't want to and don't believe in it

Good for you! So you accept that the threats of Hell & Armageddon are not intimidating or coercive?

WireRider

I don't believe in Armageddon. It is used to teach and indoctrinate and use the Bible to scare the shit out of people - you should be wary of any lakes. The Earth will cease to exist at some point - but not the 12 times the Watchtower claimed in the past and completely promised to have inside information for. Or in Watchtower terms "subscription drive".

nicolaou - I do do have a belief in Heaven and Hell. Just not on this planet. The people of the time who describe Heaven and Hell wouldn't have had the words or the understanding to define them accurately. I just don't run around preaching that God said I would rule a Kingdom on Earth. I would argue that the Watchtower is a very demonstrated false prophet per the very bible they teach - and a flat out lair. That makes them not a religion - at least by the very bible and the context they are in. The cattle prods with a barrier to exit make them a cult.

That is much different from today - saying, and threatening, that they can separate you from your family and friends if you don't do what some humans tell you to do. Or face some tribunal of elders who think they are somehow thing they are better than you and have a right to sit in judgement. Not a Biblical religion - a biblical excuse from a small group of humans.

defender of truth

Not everyone can cope without their family/support system.

A total outsider with nothing to lose cannot even begin to understand the situation. There is no empathy, where there is no understanding.

Further, a thread like this accomplishes nothing.. It has no effect.

Except for perhaps making a few people feel guilty for choosing to sacrifice their freedom to speak their mind, in order to stay in touch with loved ones.

Those who are motivated to leave and are capable of it, will do so. An organised walkout will not add any further motivation for those scared of losing their families.

A million JW's could disassociate themselves tomorrow, and I would still remain an active JW. (My family are all 100% hardcore believers..)

-------

From your OP:

" I get the sense that all 35% or more don't like it - don't believe in it - feel it's a burden - ...hate to go - feel trapped. That is ridiculous.

The only thing propping them up is that 35% smile and pretend nothing is wrong - encouraging active members that all is good - and enticing new members to electro-shock religion because soooo many people appear to be members. The person next to you probably feels just as trapped as you but can't say anything.

They hate it too but put on a smile and don't want to get caught. They're scared to get caught. They may be there just because so many fake people that hide too all still go.

Pull the plug. Stop going so that they cannot claim so many numbers and sound so appealing to draw more people in. Shout. Shout a warning to all that this is not where they want to be.

Those that do still attend are supporting them - in numbers and presence - stop it."

The total number of JW's will not make their insane teachings, controlling propaganda and boring routine of field service and indoctrination, any more or less appealing.. Not to a single person, in my view. Other factors attract people to this group.

And regarding those on the inside of the organisation, those who may be faking it ..

If you know that your family and friends are not believers, it's all a big social club to them, and thus they would be ready to walk away if you were to do so.. Great.

If you are sure that your circle of friends and family is that laid back about "the Truth", then why bother to walk out? You are already as good as free. Just do the inactive fade-away thing.

Of course, if your family are not motivated by your 'bold stand for what you believe in', because they believe it all, so they treat you as though you were dead.. Ah well, you've only lost everybody who is important to you, eh? Never mind (!). At least you have lowered the attendance figures and no longer support the mostly irrelevant little cult known as the Watchtower.. How happifying.

Encouraging people to walk away purely because others may follow you out of the door, is a bit like encouraging people to play Russian roulette, in my view. Unless you already know which of the chambers are loaded (ie knowing which people in your family and friends don't believe any more), or you have nothing to lose (in terms of family and friends), then why would anyone take the risk?

Why should I destroy my life and lose my family, just to DA and subtract one number from a total on a worldwide report?

There is nothing ridiculous about a person being afraid of losing their family and friends, their whole support system.

Each one must carry his own load. ;)

JW_Rogue

Of course, if your family are not motivated by your 'bold stand for what you believe in', because they believe it all, so they treat you as though you were dead.. Ah well, you've only lost everybody who is important to you, eh? Never mind (!). At least you have lowered the attendance figures and no longer support the mostly irrelevant little cult known as the Watchtower.. How happifying.

Exactly! Even the ones who are fakers will shun you because they don't want to leave and or get shunned themselves. No one really knows who the true believers are and their is no way to find out without exposing yourself. There are no private, off the record discussions in JW land.

oppostate

@WireRider

The Catholic Inquisition killed thousands. Mistreated thousands more with physical and mental torture. Yet... The Catholic Church is still around generations after.

Despite Protestants fighting to their deaths against the Catholic Church, they've managed to still be around.

If such an evil institution that burnt people to death and tortured false confessions out of people could survive the centuries--what makes you think any cult, especially not as crazy violent as the Catholic Church was, can't survive, and even thrive despite opposition and reform?

Armstrong's Church of God went through an epiphany of sorts and left behind their cultish ways to become Grace Communion International, yet there are a dozen or more offshoots still holding on to Armstrong's crazy cultish ideas (in many ways very similar to WT doctrines).

How can any of your ideas to have ex-JW's band together and reform or fight the JW.0rganization succeed where there's obvious examples of very toxic religious institutions continuing to exist and thrive?

At most your ideas are born of a feeling of frustration, sadly this feeling wont change much.

Why don't you do anything?

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