Would You Like a PELVIC Exam with your Finger Surgery????

by teenyuck 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • teenyuck

    Would you like a pelvic exam with that surgery for your finger? I am outraged!!!!! I had no idea this kind of crap went on. What a joke. Lets do a pelvic on someone who has not given consent, is unconscience and with a few classmates....THIS WOULD BE RAPE in any other setting. Ladies: No matter what you are going in for, ask what the policy is. Read the fine print. This is an outrage. If they had nothing to hide, they would not have to do it without consent. http://www.dispatch.com/national-story.php?story=dispatch/news/news03/mar03/1680219.html Schools seek consent for students to check unconscious women Wednesday, March 12, 2003 David B. Caruso Associated Press

    PHILADELPHIA -- Some of the nation's leading medical schools have abandoned a little-known, decades-old practice of letting students perform pelvic exams on women without their consent while they are under anesthesia.

    The schools are asking permission first.

    Previously, these institutions routinely had brought in students -- sometimes as many as three or four -- to conduct pelvic exams on unconscious women just before their gynecological surgeries and often without their consent.

    Changes in that practice have taken place after complaints from students who felt the exams without consent were unethical.

    "My problem was that if they found out about it they might be really upset, and it was really only being done for my benefit,'' said Dr. Ari Silver-Isenstadt, who refused to examine anesthetized women as a student at the University of Pennsylvania.

    "I felt like I would be violating their trust,'' he said.

    Students also raised objections in the mid-1990s at Harvard Medical School.

    Dr. Daniel Federman, senior dean for clinical teaching at Harvard, said the complaints led to a new policy under which surgical patients had to give consent for a pelvic exam for training purposes.

    "Very few patients decline. And when they do, we honor it,'' Federman said.

    Ohio State University School of Medicine's policy has long been that only the medical student assigned to a patient's treatment team may conduct pelvic examinations of that patient, OSU Medical Center spokesman David Crawford said.

    The attending physician and student meet with the patient to go over her treatment, Crawford said. There is no requirement that a patient be specifically informed that the student will be doing a pelvic exam, "but the idea is to disclose as much as possible,'' he said.

    Most medical students working at Columbus hospitals are from OSU.

    At the University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine, complaints by students in the late 1990s led to a line being added to patient consent forms, specifically noting that women having gynecological surgery might be given a pelvic exam while they are under anesthesia.

    Typically, the surgeon performing the operation conducts an exam to confirm the problem to be corrected by surgery.

    Dr. Patricia Robertson, director of UCSF's obstetrics and gynecology clerkship, said students have also been directed to meet with the patient before each operation and explain how they will be involved in their care.

    "The students, I think, were most upset because they felt there were students lining up in the operating room doing pelvic exams, who really had nothing to do with the patient,'' she said.

    Most medical students learn the basics of the pelvic exam by practicing on paid volunteers but eventually need to move on to real patients.

    Anesthetized women are perfect subjects, doctors said, because they are relaxed and unable to feel the sometimes painful mistakes of novice examiners.

    Consent is still far from a universal practice.

    At the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, patients are told that students will be part of their care team, but they aren't specifically told the treatment could include a pelvic exam for educational purposes.

    There are similar policies at the University of Pennsylvania and the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.

    Many students, however, appear to disagree with such policies: 70 percent surveyed at Philadelphia-area hospitals in 1995 before they completed an obstetrics and gynecology clerkship said it was important to ask women for consent, according to a study published last month in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

  • patio34


    I am speechless! I thought it must be a hoax article, but it's not. Then I thought it must be referring to the early 1900s or something, but it's not!! Unbelieveable!


  • patio34

    Here's another article that Google had:

    Pelvic Exams Without Permission

    March 12, 2003

    By Michelle Esteban

    SEATTLE - "It's a violation, It's wrong," says Joy Relerford of Seattle.

    Outrage best describes how some women feel when they learned that some leading medical schools across the country routinely allowed medical students to give pelvic exams to unconscious women without their consent.

    "I would never want anybody to do anything to my body," says Laura Johnson of Seattle.

    "You'd want to be asked, it's your body and that exam is a very private exam," says Nicole Taylor of Tacoma.

    "I don't want anybody messing around, learning and me not knowing, if I know it's alright otherwise how uncomfortable to have somebody violating your privacy," says Laura Johnson.

    "I don't ever remember doing that when I went through medical school training." Dr. Michael Kelly is Chairman of Medical Ethics at Swedish Medical Center.

    "A patient should not be examined without the patient's permission," says Dr. Kelly.

    But that didn't happen at the University of Pennsylvania, Tufts University and other leading medical schools. After medical students complained, those schools now ask permission first.

    "Not every little thing, like drawing blood, but any kind of major procedure or invasive procedure into your body," says Dr. Kelly.

    The UW says its med students learn how to perform pelvic exams on paid volunteers.

    The University of Washington Medical Center tells KOMO 4 News that medical students are involved in pelvic exams, but only when they're involved in gynecological procedures and only when the patient has given consent. But here's the rub, if you don't specifically ask what the students will be doing, no one is gonna tell you. You have to ask.

    The UW says patients who give consent are told 3rd year medical students will participate in their care.

    "That would make me double check with my doctor," says Laura Johnson.

    That's the best way to be sure there won't be any surprises. Patients have a right to ask questions, to request a doctor and not a student do the procedure and the right to say no.

    Dr. Kelly says although consent is critical, he believes the best way to teach medical students is not by watching but by doing.

  • Mary

    Am I missing something here? If you're having surgery "down there" anyway, who gives a damn if they give you a pelvic exam while you're out? I'd rather them give me the exam while I'm unconcious rather than awake......

  • teenyuck

    Mary, pelvic exams were being "given" by medical students who had no reason to be there. The story I posted says that students were lining up to "exam" women who were sedated. This is clearly unethical. The fact that it was hidden for long says alot about the procedures and the unethical methods.

    If I am "out" I do not want a pelvic exam being done. Unless I approve it, only by the doctor I am seeing for my particular problem. If I sign away my rights and let them go at it, what type of damage can be done by a "student" probing inside of you.

    If you go to a teaching hospital this can happen. You need to be informed as a consumer/patient that someone with little or no training can be inserting things (fingers, speculums) into your body.

    Sure, I would rather have a pelvic when I am out; however, the fact that it could be used for some dermatology student to learn about the female body is wrong. Use a blow up doll.

    Dignity is missing in most hospital settings.

    My story; True and ugly:

    I was bike riding and collided with a neighbor and his wife; they were on a tandum bike. We all went flying. I ended up bouncing my head off the pavement and with a huge gash above my eye, along with a severe concussion.

    However, a doctor who witnessed the collision thought I broke my neck...he thought I was hysterical for crying. He called paramedics who called Life Flight. I was helicoptered to the Cleveland Clinic Cleveland. I was about 100 miles away in a vacation area with my neighbors.

    I ended up in the emergency room.....Not quite like ER the TV show. They took sissors and cut my clothing off from ankle to neck. (remember, I was bike riding; I had not extra clothing on me at the time) I was totally naked while a group of strangers poked and prodded and tested. No reason I could see to cut off my blue jeans.

    They examined me every which way....there were about 8 doctors and 5 nurses around me.....they finally determined I did not break my neck. I had a concussion and a severe cut above my eye. They told the nurse to take me to a non-trama room. They put a sheet over me to cover me. I was coherent.

    I was put in a room with the head of the bed against the wall and my feet pointing towards the open door. They refused to take off the foam collar I had on. I was only covered by a sheet. Because of the collar, it was difficult to lay flat...I had to bend my knees to relieve pressure on my back and neck. I was waiting for a plastic surgeon to come in and sew up my eye.

    A male nurse was coming in and out. He would say "Hi Tina, How are you?" he would then giggle and walk out. I could kinda turn my head to look over my bended knees. I saw people walking by...doctors, nurses, orderlies, visitors, etc. I layed there for about 2.5 hours, waiting for a surgeon.

    After I bended my legs I noticed that the people walking by would glance my way, stop, stare and start to laugh. I figured that I must look a fright; I landed on my face and I was having a bad hair day to begin with....I could only imagine how bad I looked to elicit the giggles.

    After about 2 hours of laying there, with the male nurse coming in and out (he was getting supplies from a cabinet behind me), he stopped and said:

    "Tina, are you cold girl? Are you feeling like you want to show the world what you got?" My reaction was "HUH?!" I had no idea what he was talking about.

    HE: "Tina, I am going to cover you up; You are showing the world your goods". Then he PULLED THE SHEET DOWN FROM MY KNEES TO COVER MY CROTCH.

    I had been giving the hospital a free view; When I bent my knees the sheet rode up and there I was in all my glory. Every person who had walked by and stopped to look was looking at my wide open crotch. They had cut off my underwear recall.

    The worst part was that no one did a thing to help me. They thought it was funny. Men and women. I was beyond humiliation. I thought I was having a bad hair day. I was; only it was not on my head.

    Moral of the story: Don't expect the doctors or hospital to respect your dignity.

    After I finally got sewn up by a plastic surgeon, I was told I could leave. HELLLLLOOOOOO!!!!

    I had no clothing. They cut my clothing off and threw it in a garbage. They offered me a paper gown to go home in. It was a 2.5 hour ride back to where we were staying. Luckily my husband had his gym bad in his car and had a dirty pair of sweatpants and a dirty tee shirt.

    For all the free pussy shots that hospital crew got, they could have at least given me a pair of scrubs to wear home.

  • Mary

    Tina, your story is unbelievable and I'm disgusted that doctors and nurses would allow you to show yourself to the world and not even have the common decency to come and cover you up. What pigs!

    I understand why they cut your clothes off....in an accident this is quite common; they want to see if there are other injuries elsewhere that might be life-threatening. However, they should have found you proper clothing to go home in. Idiots.

    I guess I didn't read the article correctly. I thought it was women who were getting gynological surgery anyway that were being given pelvic exams by the doctor while they were out. If it's every Tom Dick and Harry on the staff who's coming in to do it just for a thrill, while you're out cold then I'd sue the hospital for sure. Rotten pigs.

  • teenyuck

    I will never forget that happening. It was 13 years ago and I can still see the male nurse and the faces of the docs and nurses as they walked by.

    I can laugh about it now....up til that happened the only men who had "viewed me" were my husband, my old boyfriends and my female gyno. I have never even been to a male gyno.

    To think I thought smeared mascara and messy hair were the reason for the snickers.

    I had surgery about 1.5 years ago, on my back. It was so creepy being in the prep room with all the other people getting surgery that morning. No privacy, no dignity. We all could see each other and hear every word being said by the docs around us. I did not like that at all.

    I had no idea this kind of stuff went on. I go to Ohio State University Medical and now I am going to be extra vigilant when I do go. One less thing to trust your doc about. Which is sad.

  • patio34

    Hi Tina,

    Absolutely a horror story. My sympathy. While one of the articles indicates that it's gynecologic surgeries, it does give one pause. I had an abdominal surgery and a 3rd yr student assisted. I hope they didn't practice anything else as it was a teaching hospital. Even if it were a gynecologic surgery, there's no reason for a pelvic exam to be given by students unless you give permission. LOL about getting a blow-up doll. And why not?


  • Solace

    Oh MY God...

    Cant even comment....

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