Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text: Genealogies in Genesis 5

by ILoveTTATT2 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ILoveTTATT2

  I started a thread comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic text.
  
  It is here:
  
  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5665236409384960/comparing-septuagint-masoretic-text
  
  For those who do not know what the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are, here's an introduction on Wikipedia:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text

  I think that, more than anything else, the fact that the Septuagint and the Masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the Bible.

  And more than anything else, the most striking differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic text have to be the genealogies of Genesis 5.

  The genealogies of Genesis 5 are CRUCIAL to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Adventists, and many other religions that place an emphasis on time prophecy.
  
  Why is that?
  
  Because they try to make out when the "end of the world" happens based on the 6000 years of human existence, they HAVE to use Genesis 5. And, if the numbers in Genesis 5 in the Bible most people in the Western world use are wrong, then the time to creation is wrong, and then the "end of the world date" is wrong.
  
  So, what are the differences?
  
  The account tells the ages in this format:
  
  X person lived for Y years. Then he had a son. Then he lived for Z more years, so his total lifespan was A years.
  
  Let's start with Adam in the Masoretic Text (New World Translation, 1984 version):
  
  (Genesis 5:3-5) 3 And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
  
  So we have:
  

  Adam, 130 + 800 = 930.
  
  What does the Septuagint say?
  
  Genesis 5:3-5, NETS:
  
  Now Adam lived two hundred thirty years and became a father, according to his form and according to his image and named his name Seth. And the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth amounted to seven hundred years, and he had sons and daughters. And all the days of Adam, that he lived, amounted to nine hundred thirty years, and he died.
  
  Adam, 230 + 700 = 930.
  
  You might say at this moment, "so what? At the end of the day, it says that Adam lived for the same amount of time." That is true, but the most important number in this format is the first one. There are 100 years of difference between Adam becoming father to Seth in the MT and the LXX.
  
  What about the rest of the people in Genesis 5?
  
  You can see them here:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis#Genesis_numbers
  
  The first number in the list in Genesis is added up with all the generations (and then added with the same formula in Genesis 11), and we get:
  
  The MT gives 1946 years from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham.
  The LXX gives 3312 years from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham.
  
  QUITE THE DIFFERENCE!
  
  This would make the Jehovah's Witnesse's "1975", when supposedly 6000 years of human existence ended, in 609 A.D.
  
  We would be in the year 7,407 after creation if we were to base ourselves on the LXX instead of the MT.
  
  This, just this, is enough for some (me included) to stop believing that the Bible is true and inerrant.
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  TTWSYF

  I think that it is worth mentioning that the Septuagint is a greek translation of the hebrew scriptures and words don't always line up when making translations. These words of Hebrew get translated to English would of course be different than Hebrew to Greek to English.

  For example, there are two words for ONE in Hebrew and they have different meanings.

  Only one word for ONE in english and greek. Tough to translate that to everyones' satisfaction I would think
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  Crazyguy

  If I was still a bible believer I would take the Septuagint over any other. It has the apocrypha and it's time lines makes way more sense. It's also the oldest and most accurate.
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  joey jojo

  ILoveTTATT2,

  Thanks for this.

  I was watching something about the pyramid of Giza and how it pre-dates Noahs flood. I was doing some light research and found an article about how the Septuagint and the Masoretic differ when giving ages and time spans in Genesis. The result being wildly different chronology, with the Septuagint timeline putting the flood before the pyramid of giza was built. Which makes more sense if you believe that stuff.

  Comparing the Masoretic to the Septuagint is something I hadn't even considered, maybe its because of years as an indoctrinated JW but I assumed the 2 would be close enough textually to make any difference trivial.

  But they are different and the more you dig, the murkier it seems to get as to what to believe. Once you pull back the curtain, it astounds me that people devote their lives and the lives of their children to any Judeo- Christian faith based on this information.
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  smiddy3

  If there really was an ALMIGHTY GOD wouldn`t you think he would be concerned about whether he was quoted right about what he was supposed to have said in the book that has been attributed to him as his word ? the Bible ?

  There is no Christian religious organization on earth that agrees wholeheartedly with any interpretation of the various translations of the Bible.

  And today we have over 40 ,000 different christian sects supposedly basing their beliefs on the Bible.

  Yet after 2000 + years no GOD has tried to set matters straight and clear up any confusion.

  And the Bible was supposed to give humans everlasting life if they put their trust and hope in Jesus christ .

  Is God a God of confusion ?
• 

  Acluetofindtheuser

  Take a look at this genealogy comparison chart of Genesis below. It compares the birth,death,life span of the Masoretic text, the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Greek Septuagint.

  If the two witness rule is to be applied, then the Masoretic text is wrong with the first born data of Arphaxad, Salah, Eber, Peleg, Reu and Serug. The Greek Septuagint and Samaritan Pentateuch both agree when these first born sons appeared in the timeline. For some reason the editors of the Masoretic text decided to drop the 100's portion of the age.

  If you follow the Greek Septuagint and the Samaritan Pentateuch with the six men listed above, then it puts the building of the Pyramids of Egypt after the deluge, not before. Also of note is the fact that the NT writers quoted the Greek Septuagint and not the Masoretic text.

  Here's a link to the table if it's hard to read.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis