Does anyone have a suggestion as to raising questions in the mind of a witness without actually mentioning their beliefs? I spoke to my JW friend about some concerns I had and got nowhere. Any conversation about her beliefs is seen as an effort to undermine her beliefs. Whatever I do It needs to be done very subtly, or I'll lose whatever trust she has left In me. The only contact I have with her Is by writing letters and I want to find something to include In them that would get her to question, or investigate what she's involved with. I know at one time there seemed to be subtle signs of doubt In her, but the mind control has caused her to suppress them.
Getting Them To Question
by mackey 5 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
Sometimes, it is just getting them to explain their beliefs to you.
For example, "I'm having trouble explaining the change in the 1914 generation doctrine to a co-worker. This is what I have researched so far. Can you help me?"
or
"My non-JW parent wonders why transplants were unacceptable in the past but are acceptable now. I have researched it, can you help me see how to explain it to them?"
or
"The person I study with wants me to explain why Jehovah's Witnesses taught the end was coming in 1975. This is what I have researched, can you help me see how to explain it to them?
Most JWs do not understand their own beliefs and are surprised to see what really was in the publications (few really read the magazines and only study them when they get to the WT study). Be sincerely confused, asking for their assistance to clear up what you have researched.
Blondie(I saw the light on JWD)
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A Paduan
It has come to my attention that the staunch adherents of jwism now have a new understanding which answers all three seeds above.
"The light is getting brighter" - this seeems to be a coverall for any level of darkness encountered before or presently, oh, and "they're just imperfect men".
I directly questioned a staunch adherent over undeniable matters, and simply got the happy "getting brighter" reply - unless the gb started building concentration camps, I should think that whatever they did would not change this person - they WANT the gb to be the authority, otherwise they have been wrong themselves.
Perhaps it needs to be seeded that the place was/is black - not dim.
paduan
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jws
Haven't really tried this one, but not being directly about religious beliefs (trinity/no trinity, hellfire/no hellfire, etc), maybe you could raise little things here and there that question that little notion that life changed dramatically in 1914. Like, do some research on famines. Next time there's mention of one in the papers, you can talk about it. Then bring out how small that is in comparison to past ones in China or other places. How malnutrition isn't famine and how deadly past real famines were. Or when they go on about something like AIDS or other diseases, tell them how minimal that was compared to the black death. Maybe they'll realize, subtly, that that whole sky-is-falling mentality has been wrong, yet you've never challenged direct beliefs, just given them history lessons. I think that would have worked on me.
On the other hand, this sort of thing hasn't worked with my father. Last night I asked him if he cared whether his religion was wrong and he said no.
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blacksheep
Didn't care whether his religion was wrong? Yep, my mom basically said the same thing a few years ago. She said "it's still the best way to live." Right, living in a cult that requires you to shun non-believing family members, celebrates no holidays (except that big memorial bash, where nowadays *no one* even gets to have a drink), doesn't get involved in the community, avoids higher education and material trappings, goes to 5 hours of boring repetitive meetings where nothing really knew has been, go out in service to hear people say to stuff your mags where the sun don't shine....
Yep. That's it. That's the best way to live!
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hooberus
In the Witness mind faith in the Organization is the same as faith in God, leaving "Jehovah's Organization" is the same as leaving Jehovah himself. Doubting the organization is the same as doubting Jehovah. So before bringing up damaging information it is helpful to separate the Witnesses faith in God (which we want them to keep) from faith in the WT Organization (which we want them to loose)
Here are some questions which can be brought up using a 1970 Watchtower arcticle in which while speaking of other groups they contradict the above principals which they usually drum into JW minds.
Is questioning a religious organization that claims to represent God the same as questioning God?
Is doubting a religious organization that claims to represent God the same as doubting God?
Where should we place our ultimate faith: in a religious organization or in God?
To whom do we owe the greater loyaly to a religious organization or God?
Does John 6:68 refer to a church organization or to a person (Jesus Christ). Should a religious organizaion take a passage applied to Jesus Christ and apply it to itself?
The above questions can be brought up using the January 15, 1970 Watchtower p. 37-40 which contains an arcticle titled:
"Which Comes First- Your Church or God?"
"The "first man" represents the believers who remain faithful to their church out of loyalty to the religion they were brought to believe in. Thier attitude is: Right or wrong, it is my religion! Is that the way you feel? If so, you are certainly a loyal person. But to whom do you owe the greater loyalty-to your church, or to God? With so much disbelief rife throughout the earth, you are to be commended for maintaining your faith, but where should your faith be placed-in a religious organization, or in God?" p.37
"The "second man" mentioned in the Nouvel Observateur represents those Catholics and Protestants who stay with their church because they do not know where else to go. They havebeen taught that their church represents God, and they do not want to turn away from him. They disapprove of many church practices or doctrines, but they hope to reform their church from within. Typical of these are the 744 French Catholics who, in November 1968, sent a long open letter to the pope. In it they stated: "Today the Christian needs to live in a 'true' Church . . . Therefore all that is false, contrary to the Gospel and scandalous within the Church today wounds the Christian." Then followed a long list of grievances against the Catholic Church and it current teachings and practices. Yet, toward the end, these catholics expressed their unconditional adherence to their church by alluding to John 6:68 and stating: "Who could we go to? In her [the Roman Catholic Church] we find the One who has words of eternal life." p.39
I beileve that this Watchtower arcticle can with a few simple questions be used effectively to separate the witnesses "Loyalty to God" from "Loyalty to the Organization". The Issue of faith in a religious organization being separte from faith in God is addressed nicely. Also issues of "where else to go" and the misappication of John 6:68 from Christ to a "church" or "organization" can be very effectively brought up using this arcticle.
In an earlier post the follwing was given by a former witness as some of the reasons for staying in the Watchtower Organization.
"Obstacles/hinderances: Loyalty. Thinking that there was no where else to go. Fear of the unknown. Believing God and the Watchtower were inseperable. Believing we would lose Gods protective barrier and bring death on our family (Like Job) if we left."
I believe that the above article can be used effectively and non-offensively to deal with these common issues.