Sinning against the Holy Spirit - is it for you?

by Deleted 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • Deleted
    Deleted

    Hello all.

    I used to think, early 1999 to be precise, that I might be following Satan and sininng against the Holy Spirit by deliberatley leaving the Organization. In my list of 30-odd nails in my JW coffin I have this. I thought it might help the lurkers who wonder the same.

    Peace

    Glen James (who once was Deleted) All along, the Watch Tower Told a pack of lies Broken hearts and promises So much wasted time

    JW COFFIN NAIL # __ - SINNING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT

    One of the scriptures I couldnt reconcile is found at Matthew 12: 31-32. The NWT in the Kingdom Interlinear puts Jesus words this way:

    31, " On this account I say to you, Every sort of sin and blasphemy against the spirit (sic) will not be forgiven. 32. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor the in that to come,

    When I was just a newbie dub I was in a car group and we were talking about the Holy Spirit and I said it had a personality, and I was quickly corrected. But as youd imagine these verses burned an impression in me. Namely, to not "sin" against the Spirit of God, despite not agreeing that this spirit is like electricity and has no personality. So I accepted that it was really sinning against Jehovah God, and thats that.

    In the rural Portland area there is a very nice "apostate" (although never a dub) named John Warren. As a JW it would be sinning against God for me to talk with him. However, after a few months of deprogramming through Freeminds, Support4xjs and a very nice Portland "soul" therapist I was able to visit John. I had seen him once at the Estacada Kingdom Hall, with Duane Magani. I didnt have a "position" then but I bristled at their presence. I recall that outside they asked to see the library for certain older publications and told they could not.

    So with a little anxiety, but somewhat solid in my belief of non-belief, I went to his home just a few miles away. I had just dumped all the WT publications including first-run magazines from the 50s not realizing their was an after-market of WT publications. Anyway, we had a nice visit, I think I disappointed him that I couldnt claim to be a Christian. He has been praying for over 20 years that someone would wake-up and realize the WT organization was essentially deceitful, notably in changing doctrines without explanation or apoplogy. In many cases doctrines that cause physical, was well as spiritual, harm.

    I did trade some more recent publications and he gave me some pamphlets deriding Russell and Rutherford by their opponents in the early 1900s. We talked about a few things and the subject of Holy Spirit came up and he handed me this from Rutherfords 1939 book "Salvation" on page 216-217.

    In this prophetic picture Job represents the faithful followers of Christ Jesus, and the covering ransom is found in the advocacy of Christ Jesus, who called in this scripture the Messenger or Interpreter. In the year 1918 the anti-typical Job class, the faithful followers of Christ Jesus whom Job represented, were in great distress because of oppression heaped upon them by the enemy. In that year the Lord Jesus came to the temple of Jehovah God. The holy spirit [in lower case, bolding is mine] that had been the guide of Gods people, having performed its functions, was taken away, and the Lord Jesus himself, being present, represented his people and advocated in their behalf before Jehovah God, that is, in behalf of those that have fallen into distress because of their failure to properly use their lips in proclaiming the truth. That class is pictured in the prophecy of Isaiah, wherein they cried unto the Lord and the Lord heard them and relieved them. (Isaiah 6:6,7; 12;1) The faithful who thus cried unto the Lord are the ones who found a covering ransom in the advocacy of Christ Jesus. Certainly this did not apply to the "evil servant" [apparently all Bible Students who disagreed with him - Ed.] class. Only the faithful remnant were spared from going down into the pit, because for them there was a covering. This text has heretofore been applied as a "restitution" text, that is, to the "people that will be restored in the days of Christs reign". But the application in this manner is not correct. It was the faithful who found an atonement or deliverance by and through their Advocate, Christ Jesus.

    Sorry for that but I hate to read things out of context, so it was best to type in the whole paragraph. Rutherford was a lawyer, hence what he writes is 4 times what it needs to be.

    So if the Holy Spirit had done its duty and was gone and only the faithful remnant had deliverance by Christ Jesus what does that mean in the light of Matthew 12:31,32?

    The copy I have of Rutherfords "Salvation" is the 1,000,000 edition. He was the chief and leader of Jehovahs witnesses at that time. He was the follower of the follower Russell, who in turn pieced his unique religion together from the Adventists, and a dose of this one and that one. Rutherford was the authoritarian and out-sold Russell in terms of Watch Tower publications. Rutherford outsold Hitlers Mein Campf about 10 to 1. Publishing was big business, as it still is.

    Knowingly, Rutherford created Watch Tower doctrine at this point by claiming the 144,000, those with the heavenly hope of ruling with Jesus are now the replacement for the Holy Spirit for the rest of mankind. And this had been happening since 1918. I am sure that in more recent publications this has been corrected. I recall "studying" the WT book "Holy Spirit", after we were baptized in 1981, it didnt mention anything about having left in 1918 and coming back again.

    You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear and a solid home must have a solid foundation. If this was Watch Tower doctrine in 1939 then this must have been considered as blasphemy by Jesus, Yahweh and the Holy Spirit to the extent each has a consciousness. Anyway you look at it the Holy Spirit would have been gone. If God actually picked the Watch Tower publishing companies as his chosen "faithful and discreet slave" he must have given up on them at least since 1939.

    So if you think you might be following Satan the Devil by leaving the Watch Tower and subjecting yourself and your family to eternal annihilation, think again. The Watch Tower has spent at least the last 60+ years running without that Spirit at all.

  • Mum
    Mum

    Well, D, you said a mouthful! I remember one of the servants (as they were called before the "elder arrangement") talking about William J. Schnell, author of "30 (or was it 40?) Years a Watchtower Slave." This servant, who I (as a 15-year-old new convert 40 years ago) believed to be so wise, said that Schnell could never be accepted back into the organization because he had committed the unforgivable sin.

    I had never had anyone explain the "unforgivable sin" even though my grandparents were very religious. So the only interpretation I have ever heard is the Watchtower version; and that version is not consistent because, to the contrary, I've heard it said that "apostates" could repent and return to the organization.

    But, given the interpretation I first heard, yes. The Watchtower version of the "unforgivable sin" is the only ethical choice for anyone who has been in its clutches and broken free. Keep spreading the truth about "the trooth," sisters and brothers, friends and neighbors, all escapees together.

    Thanks for the reminder of how far we've come in our journey to freedom.

    SandraC

  • Warrigal
    Warrigal

    Where does the Holy Spirit stand in the matter of child abuse? If God condemned rape and molestation as a sin worthy of death, how could questioning the teachings of the org. be the unforgiveable sin? If the org. welcomes a child molester back into its fold, does that constitute a resurrection?

    If the Holy Spirit is God's active force; why didn't it 'get active' to protect the children who were victimized?

    Warrigal

  • Francois
    Francois

    According to the WTBTS, sinning against the Holy Spirit means whatever the WTBTS says it means this week. Usually it means contradicting whatever the WTBTS has to say regarding any given topic.

    I wouldn't knowingly sin against the actual holy spirit. However, if there was a way for me to trip up the WTBTS house of cards, I would do so. In fact, I would print up thousands upon thousands of instructional tracts and have them dropped from airplanes so that everyone could get in on the fun.

    francois

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    They just had an article about this: they said that anyone who opposes what God's power is umdeniably accomplishing is committing the unforgivable sin.

    they then mentioned apostates, with that snide, self-satisfied air of complacency - they've scared the faithful yet again with this stupid doctrine.

    My interpretation is that the unforgivable sin can only be committed by groups of people, not individuals - ie. the Pharisees committed the unforgivable sin as a group when they said that Jesus cast out demons by means of Beelzebub. When collectively they stooped to that level, they forfeited any right they had to partake of God's holy spirit and let it guide them as a group of religious leaders - although apparently some of these former opposers later came to be Christians.

    This would explain how an individual can always turn to God and humbly let his spirit guide them in their lives, while explaining Jesus' remarks about unforgivable trespasses.

    CZAR

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