EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian

by Perry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    Crazy Guy,

    When I became a Christian I conducted business strictly with Jesus and was saved, since "there is no other name under heaven by which we are saved". But, Christians have always believed Jesus, the man, is irrevocably fused with the personage of the Son which has the same essence as Jehovah.

    As my wife and I started going to services, especially more traditional services I was surprised how many references to Jehovah were made in the Hymnals. It is not uncommon to find songs that go back three to five hundred years affirming that the father and son are one essence.

    Here's just one example.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK9-bJlSt6cf

  • Village Idiot
  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    There are 30,000 Christian sects, with a wide range of interpretations, so to claim Christianity has to do with following your particular doctrinal understanding is illogical.

    Of course JWs are Christian.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christian

    Definition of CHRISTIAN for Kids

    1
    : of or relating to Jesus Christ or the religion based on his teachings
    2
    : of or relating to people who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ <a Christian nation>

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/christian

    someone who ​believes in and ​follows the ​teachings of ​JesusChrist

    JWs believe in Jesus and follow their interpretation of his teachings, just as you do, and people of any of the 30,000 Christian sects do. They think your interpretation is flawed just as you think their interpretation is flawed.

    Funny that you say they are not Christian, they say you are not a true Christian, but you are both are both trying to achieve the same thing.

  • Perry
    Perry
    There are 30,000 Christian sects

    And Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in their outright rejection of the New Covenant, the one that offers forgiveness of sins.

    In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins - Eph. 1 : 7


    Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. - Matthew 26: 27&28


    Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Blood of the Covenant for themselves personally. This is fundamental to what being a Christian is. This is the primary reason why they are not Christian. There IS NOT ONE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE that describes how a person can get their sins forgiven outside of the New Covenant.



  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    And Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in their outright rejection of the New Covenant, the one that offers forgiveness of sins.

    The definition of Christian is someone that believes in Christ, it is not someone that accepts the New Covenant. That is just your interpretation of what is important. A Hindu/Muslim would have no difficulty recognizing a JW as Christian, it is only Christians that are splitting hairs to differentiate themselves. I see your definition as nothing other than a marketing ploy.

    Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Blood of the Covenant for themselves personally. This is fundamental to what being a Christian is.

    Who says acceptance of the covenant is fundamental? Scriptures such as Acts 16:31, John 17:3 shows it is belief in Jesus.

    Further, JWs do accept the New Covenant, they just believe it is mediated to them through the anointed. Just because the 144,000 have inserted themselves as an intermediary does not mean the New Covenant is rejected. I disagree with this Watchtower doctrine, but it does not mean they are not Christian.

  • Perry
    Perry
    The definition of Christian is someone that believes in Christ,

    This is YOUR definition not Christs' definition. And since we are discussing what constitutes a Christian, his words are what matter not yours or muslims or mine.

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Belief that Jesus existed and even doing good works in his name doesn't make a person a Christian, or make them covered by the new covenant.

    Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

    5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” .... He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - Jesus

    A person who does not give up all that he has, he cannot be Jesus disciple. And, this is what it takes to be born again. A Christian divests himself from his rights and is able to say without hypocrisy, "do with me what thou wilt".... fully submitted for better of for worse.

    Who says acceptance of the covenant is fundamental? Scriptures such as Acts 16:31, John 17:3 shows it is belief in Jesus.

    And the beliefs we choose to accept PROVE whether or not we believe Jesus. If Jesus says to enter into an agreement with him "for the forgiveness of sins" his sheep will listen to him and do it. They will not listen to another voice indefinitely, even if there was some initial confusion.

    Further, JWs do accept the New Covenant, they just believe it is mediated to them through the anointed.

    Again, Jesus says something else:

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    The agreement that Jesus mediates between God and Men is the identifying factor of what makes it possible for a anyone to survive judgment. Those that are destined for this pardon, are called Christians.


  • vinman
    vinman

    I feel that the problem lies with the Watchtower Society's interpretation of scripture. They always apply everything to modern times like the wheat and the weeds illustration. The fact is, we are still living in that time period. It is just like the dark ages. First Corinthians, 13:12 - For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known. John 17:3 is what it is all about. Everyone can do that. The details we can try to understand and perhaps be right about many of them, but to make big claims about knowing the truth about the details, is presumptuous. Their are true Christians even in the Watchtower. Not all, but some. The separation of the wheat and the weeds is future.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    This is YOUR definition not Christs' definition.

    That was not my definition, it is from a dictionary. Jesus never used the word Christian, so you are misrepresenting him when you say you are giving his definition. You are cherry picking Scriptures to support your position as to what was most important to Jesus, just as JWs do.

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    This is YOUR definition not Christs' definition. And since we are discussing what constitutes a Christian, his words are what matter not yours or muslims or mine.

    Christians are Christian either, so why the fight over who gets to snuggle with your imaginary friend?

    .You are cherry picking Scriptures to support your position as to what was most important to Jesus, just as JWs do.

    ALL Christians do that, otherwise they would be in jail.

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    Belief that Jesus existed and even doing good works in his name doesn't make a person a Christian, or make themcovered by the new covenant.
    Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
    4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

    Interestingly, Perry, this example you used to prove your point is one of the passages we know that Jesus never would have said. Why, you may ask?

    It's a pun! More specifically, it's a pun that only makes sense in Greek. In Aramaic or Hebrew, Nicodemus never would have confused the words for spiritual birth and physical birth, they are totally different. But in Greek, however, the words were the same.

    This passage, to make sense, could ONLY have been spoken in Greek, not any language two Jews would have been speaking to each other at that time and place with their backgrounds.

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