Ray Franz was an Idiot

by vinman 96 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Pubsinger

    Well if you look at the top of this page of the thread you will see a post by Island Man in support of Ray Franz but it his first sentence he calls him a 'deluded theist'!!

    Is that a term of endearment?!

  • Pubsinger

    Ha typical! My post started a new page on the thread lol

    Top of page 3 for Island Man's post.

  • erbie

    Actually, I agree with you though it hurts me to say so. You see, I am also one of those who believed in the religion (or at least I thought I did).

    I say that I thought I believed it because to me now it is so obviously a lie, the whole religion itself being naive and immature to the extreme so that I am ashamed to admit to myself and others that I ever believed such nonsense because it would seem to indicate a lack of intelligence or at best a lack of proper education.

    Worse still, I actually felt the need to prove it wrong!! I can't believe that now.

    We created the gods and it is we who will dispense with them.

  • steve2

    You make an interesting point, Pubsinger. Describing someone as "a deluded theist" is not flattering. Yet in my view - which is likely not shared by everyone - it is not in the same demeaning personal league as calling a person "an idiot" or "a moron".

    I guess it boils down to how language is used. The OP, which vinman subsequently claimed was "sarcastic", goes straight for the personal putdown by calling Ray Franz - not his beliefs - an idiot and a moron and does not attempt to extend the matter by providing an explanation in the OP.

  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    Vinman, I meant to DISLIKE your post, but I hit "Like" by mistake.

    Franz was another victim of this cult, and because he retained a belief in God does not make him an idiot. He chose a version of religion that made sense to him and he was far more kind & compassionate than any of his cronies on the GB who were more interested in rule-making, control, and governing.

  • cantleave
    Ray Franz was far from an Idiot. He was a sincere man, with a great deal of courage and conviction. Don't criticise the man when questioning his beliefs.
  • Pubsinger

    Well if we accept what Vinman has subsequently said, that he was being sarcastic and making a point albeit not very clearly, I think his point stands.

    To call an atheist 'deluded' would be an attack on the person not on his thoughts, position or belief.

    Call a person of faith deluded and it is 'acceptable'. As Island Man's post demonstrates.

    I'm just making a point too. Possibly the same one as Vinman lol

  • Diogenesister
    Steve2 For the record, I am an athiest who cannot quite divest himself of the allure of a stronger being who promises all will be fine. But I recognise the contradiction and accept that my need for consolation is not a sound basis for belief.

    OhSteve2 " you took the words right out of my mouth"as MEATLOAF sang once! I am an athiest for Jesus!Only this morning zo was crying that I miss Jesus!!To my kids too!!

  • Finkelstein

    Wouldn't it now be appropriate to call Vinman an idiot for calling Franz an idiot ?

    Tit for Tat and all that.

    As its known people can be delusional, immersed in a poor lack of knowledge and not be described as being an idiot. Look at most of the practicing Jehovah's Witnesses for example.

  • Watchtower-Free
    Ray was very kind to me

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