Ray Franz was an Idiot (page 7)

Pubsinger

Well if you look at the top of this page of the thread you will see a post by Island Man in support of Ray Franz but it his first sentence he calls him a 'deluded theist'!!

Is that a term of endearment?!

Pubsinger

Ha typical! My post started a new page on the thread lol

Top of page 3 for Island Man's post.

erbie

Actually, I agree with you though it hurts me to say so. You see, I am also one of those who believed in the religion (or at least I thought I did).

I say that I thought I believed it because to me now it is so obviously a lie, the whole religion itself being naive and immature to the extreme so that I am ashamed to admit to myself and others that I ever believed such nonsense because it would seem to indicate a lack of intelligence or at best a lack of proper education.

Worse still, I actually felt the need to prove it wrong!! I can't believe that now.

We created the gods and it is we who will dispense with them.

steve2

You make an interesting point, Pubsinger. Describing someone as "a deluded theist" is not flattering. Yet in my view - which is likely not shared by everyone - it is not in the same demeaning personal league as calling a person "an idiot" or "a moron".

I guess it boils down to how language is used. The OP, which vinman subsequently claimed was "sarcastic", goes straight for the personal putdown by calling Ray Franz - not his beliefs - an idiot and a moron and does not attempt to extend the matter by providing an explanation in the OP.

Muddy Waters

Vinman, I meant to DISLIKE your post, but I hit "Like" by mistake.

Franz was another victim of this cult, and because he retained a belief in God does not make him an idiot. He chose a version of religion that made sense to him and he was far more kind & compassionate than any of his cronies on the GB who were more interested in rule-making, control, and governing.

cantleave

Ray Franz was far from an Idiot. He was a sincere man, with a great deal of courage and conviction. Don't criticise the man when questioning his beliefs.

Pubsinger

Well if we accept what Vinman has subsequently said, that he was being sarcastic and making a point albeit not very clearly, I think his point stands.

To call an atheist 'deluded' would be an attack on the person not on his thoughts, position or belief.

Call a person of faith deluded and it is 'acceptable'. As Island Man's post demonstrates.

I'm just making a point too. Possibly the same one as Vinman lol

Diogenesister

Steve2 For the record, I am an athiest who cannot quite divest himself of the allure of a stronger being who promises all will be fine. But I recognise the contradiction and accept that my need for consolation is not a sound basis for belief.

OhSteve2 " you took the words right out of my mouth"as MEATLOAF sang once! I am an athiest for Jesus!Only this morning zo was crying that I miss Jesus!!To my kids too!!

Finkelstein

Wouldn't it now be appropriate to call Vinman an idiot for calling Franz an idiot ?

Tit for Tat and all that.

As its known people can be delusional, immersed in a poor lack of knowledge and not be described as being an idiot. Look at most of the practicing Jehovah's Witnesses for example.

Watchtower-Free

Ray was very kind to me

Ray Franz was an Idiot

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