Ray Franz was an Idiot

by vinman 96 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • lrkr
    His books allowed me to question what I had been taught my whole life. I am forever grateful to him.
  • SuziDrums
    Not amused
  • Israel Ricky Gonzales
    Israel Ricky Gonzales
    Didn't we all basically do what this vinman person did? Judge people based on their beliefs? I think this post is a desperate attempt for attention, which is working. Well done vinman.
  • Lieu

    I see someone here was raised by goats; no manners.

    Ray Franz' belief in God but disbelief in men playing God doesn't make him a moron. It makes him human.

    What you may fail to understand as an atheist, when you belittle others for their personal beliefs which don't match yours, you're just as bad as the arse holes claiming everyone is going to hell for not holding their particular beliefs.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I challenge believers on this forum when it is appropriate. But I don't generally challenge them outside of this forum unless they challenge my non-belief. Certainly, I recognize when I want to call someone an "idiot" or "absolute moron" for their beliefs "based on some magic man in the sky" that I am really saying that about my former self.

    I was an idiot, an absolute moron- for believing in the JW "magic man in the sky."

    But really, I have come to learn that while I was giving (in my opinion) totally stellar public talks that "proved" so much that it was all the truth, that I was really falling for every kind of faulty logic there is. And it isn't all about whether a person has a high IQ or not. In my case, it was a need to believe. In other cases, it is the same or perhaps a high intelligence but with a limited imagination (I can't imagine how everything came to be by accident.) ,,,,or it's just a high way of thinking that decides we really cannot know everything, even what we think we know. I mean, I have read the philosophy that says we might all just be parts of a computer simulation, or even that we might all be projected from a 2-dimensional recording (or live) and only THINK we are in a three-dimensional world. You could also be just a brain in a vat of liquid, being stimulated to think your world is real, and none of it really is real. YADDA YADDA YADDA.

    My point is that we can't just label believers as idiots. We should challenge them, but there are so many different thoughts that go beyond intelligence alone.

    Now, on Ray- yes he remained a believer. Yes, he would have stayed a JW if they didn't kick him out. It just doesn't matter. He did more for the cause than most any of us combined with the exception of a handful of people.

  • _Morpheus



  • Gayle
    Ray opened up a door for us, not leading to him, but to our own mind and heart with freedom. He freed many slaves and had absolutely no desire to 'own' or direct or rule them.
  • AudeSapere

    The OP is a major fail, based on when he later tells us he was trying to convey.

    Trying to be clever, you failed in basic communication.

  • NVR2L8
    Hey Vinman...would I be right to say the "stupid" "moron" Ray Franz has written at least two more books than you? His books helped thousands to escape a cult. What have you done that's worth of mention?
  • Calebs Airplane

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