Public Prayers - Scriptural?

by OverlappingGeneralizations 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OverlappingGeneralizations
    OverlappingGeneralizations

    Something that has always been a pet peeve of mine- Public prayers. Is that even scriptural? I know many churches (along with the JWs) do it. One guy saying a prayer, and we all yell "amen!" at the end.

    Isn't prayer supposed to be a personal chat with God? Why would I let somebody else speak in my behalf? In fact, arent we supposed to go into a private place to pray (Matthew 6:6)? When Jesus prayed before crowds to set an example, the crowd didn't pretend to participate and yell "amen!" at the end...

    Also, aren't you not supposed to say the same things over and over? If this guy praying is supposedly representing all 100+ in attendance, and we all say "amen", isn't that supposed to represent 100+ identical prayers?

    I dunno, I just have always hated public prayers. Giving them or hearing them. It just seems so "showy". I don't let somebody call my dad up and talk to him and yell "me too!" as they are hanging up and consider that I have talked to him myself...

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    5 "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." - Matthew 6:5-6 New International Version

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    The Scriptures are filled with examples of approved public prayers.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot
    CalebInFloroda: "The Scriptures are filled with examples of approved public prayers."
    Yet Jesus condemned public prayer. Yet another inconsistency within the Bible.
  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Jesus didn't condemn public prayer. Jesus himself prayed publicly on occasion such as when he raised up Lazarus. What Jesus condemned was praying publicly for the purpose of impressing others with your righteousness.

    1 Corinthians 14:16 refers to public prayer within the christian congregation as there is mention of one praying and others saying "amen" in response. So public prayer is scriptural.

    But I still sympathize with your sentiments. I don't like public prayer either. It always smacks of an opportunity - no, a temptation - for the one praying to try to make or maintain a good impression with others. I can't help but think that the one praying will always be self conscious of what he is saying and trying to do a good job so as not to embarrass himself. It's only human for someone speaking before a crowd to exercise care that he speaks well and does not embarrass himself. This means that the one praying publicly can never give a 100% sincere prayer to God. He is always, in a sense, praying to the audience.

    Also, aren't you not supposed to say the same things over and over?

    Speaking of that, you will notice that every public pray-er seems to have his own mental prayer outline or prayer manuscript that he repeats when he has to pray. Again I believe the reason for this is pressure to make a good impression and not embarrass yourself publicly. That pressure tends to force the pray-er to develop a "safe" prayer that he can repeat every time without the risk of embarrassing himself if he were to be more spontaneous.

    As a side note, if it is really true that it is wrong to repeat the same prayer by rote or from a prayer book whenever you pray, then how can it be acceptable to God to repeat the kingdom songs by rote or from a song book when you sing? Furthermore, it is a fact that the bible book of Psalms contains prayers that were written with Hebrew acrostics for the purpose of making them easy to remember for easy recitation. So why would God inspire psalmists to write prayer songs in a manner to make them easy to remember and recite if he does not approve of repeating prayers by memory?

    JWs must be wrong about this teaching about not repeating the same prayer by rote. I believe the translation of Matthew 6 where it says not to say the same thing over and over again is actually an erroneous translation. The greek text actually says "do not multiply words". I believe this is referring to make very long, wordy prayers, thinking that God will consider you more spiritual if you talk to him for a very long time. The reason I say this is because elsewhere in the gospels Jesus also condemned the practice of making long prayers for a pretense.

    In fact the very mistranslated verse in the NWT indicates that it is about the wordiness of the prayer and not about repeating the same prayer by rote when you pray:

    "When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words" - Matthew 6:7

    Did you see the phrase "their use of many words"? That phrase does not match the first part of the verse which is rendered as saying the same things over and over again. A person can have a short prayer with few words that he says by rote whenever he prays. So clearly its not about praying by rote when you pray. It's about having unnecessarily long, wordy prayers, imagining that the length of the prayer determines God's interest in it.


  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot
    Island Man:

    "Jesus didn't condemn public prayer. Jesus himself prayed publicly on occasion such as when he raised up Lazarus. What Jesus condemned was praying publicly for the purpose of impressing others with your righteousness."

    Jesus did not say "Don't pray hypocritically in public" he was emphasizing private prayer in order to prevent the mere appearance of hypocrisy.

    "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." - Matthew 6:6 New International Version

    1 Corinthians 14:16 referred to prayers made amongst believers.

    As for Lazarus' resurrection Jesus would be the exception to his own rule. He was trying to impress others. Same thing would apply to his followers when working miracles in his name not just prayers in general.

  • CalebInFloroda
    CalebInFloroda

    @Village Idiot

    Actually my answer was cut short due to a technical problem I had on this end, so let me start again.

    The Scriptures are filled with examples of approved public prayers, such as the prayer of Hannah (1 Samuel 1.9-28), the prayer of King Solomon at the dedication of the First Temple (1 Kings 8.22-61), and Ezra's dramatic display of prayerful contrition that moves the entire nation of Jews to repentance (Ezra 10.1-4). And it doesn't end there.

    And let's not forget, the biggest book in the canon is the Book of Psalms, a collection of public prayers used by Jews and Catholics as such to this day.

    Though as most of you know I am not a Christian, so I don't believe in the inspiration of the New Testament, Christians claim that the following texts are inspired of the Holy Spirit...and they include public prayers.

    The Magnificat or Canticle of the Virgin Mary--Luke 1.46-45.

    The Nunc Dimittis or Song of Simeon.--Luke 2.29-32.

    Each time Jesus miraculously fed the crowds.--Matthew 14.19; Mark 6.41; Luke 9.16; John 6.11.

    The public prayer of Jesus that was answered from heaven.--John 12.28.

    So comparing the Scripture of Jesus from Matthew 6, and not forgetting the above texts from the Old Testament, is it being intellectually honest to say Jesus is contradicting the rest of the Scriptures or that Jesus is condemning public prayer?

    Note the context:

    "Be careful that you don’t practice your religion in front of people to draw their attention. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

    Whenever you give to the poor, don’t blow your trumpet as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets so that they may get praise from people. I assure you, that’s the only reward they’ll get. But when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing so that you may give to the poor in secret. Your Father who sees what you do in secret will reward you.

    When you pray, don’t be like hypocrites. They love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners so that people will see them. I assure you, that’s the only reward they’ll get. But when you pray, go to your room, shut the door, and pray to your Father who is present in that secret place. Your Father who sees what you do in secret will reward you."--Matthew 6.1-6, Common English Bible, italics added.

    If you notice Jesus is not condemning public prayer any more than he is condemning giving to the poor. What Jesus says is not to pray or give to the poor "like hypocrites." Hypocrites do so "in front of people to draw their attention" and to "get praise from people." If that is why people do things, Jesus said that is the reward they would get--and nothing more! But it isn't a condemnation of public prayers.

    However, I do want to add that there is nothing in the Bible that says that Scriptures cannot contradict one another. Guess what? That was invented by the JWs and other Fundamentalist Christians. Because the Bible was never intended to be an exhaustive compendium of theology and religious doctrine, each of the books was written for different purposes. You will therefore find many contradictions within.

    This creates a paradox for some Christians who attempt to excuse them away with complicated and illogical arguments. Yet this is not one of those cases. Public prayer is a staple of both Judaism and Christianity, especially since they are liturgically based religions. True, most JWs and even some exJWs have no idea what liturgy is and its importance to the history of both these religions and the shaping of the Scriptures themselves, but a simple review of the subject via the Internet should suffice to show that one of the main reasons Scriptures were collected was to use as public prayer texts.

  • iconoclastic
    iconoclastic

    All prayers originated from the misplaced belief that we are beggars: “your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Mathew 6:8) and insult God who is the very epitome of goodness (Mark 10:18)

  • barry
    barry

    The Anglicans say the Grace in galations 2.14

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ , and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

  • berrygerry
    berrygerry

    your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Mathew 6:8)

    Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son.  If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it.

    And, then the caveat:

    And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us.

    Tsk, tsk - wasn't God's will.

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