Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia (page 5)

OrphanCrow

Mephis: the Romanovs would have survived at least a few years longer than they did because Russia wouldn't have entered WW1.

Russia's entrance into WW1 had little to do with the Russian Revolution. How Nicholas responded to domestic politics had everything to do with the Revolution. And that was influenced by Rasputin, right up until he was assasinated in 1916 by members of the Royal family.

Of course the historical accounts of pre-revolution Russia are controversial and much of what happened during those times has either been hidden or altered by the resulting takeover of Russia by the Bolsheviks. However, many historians attribute the fall of the Russian Empire to the interference of Rasputin in the internal workings of Russian domestic politics.

What I have said about the role of religious sects in Russian history is not legend according to several historians.

Mephis

Russia's entrance into WW1 had little to do with the Russian Revolution. How Nicholas responded to domestic politics had everything to do with the Revolution. And that was influenced by Rasputin, right up until he was assasinated in 1916 by members of the Royal family.

Well it was something Rasputin was very much opposed to and yet it happened. Such was his power, or lack of it. The war was a huge trigger for the train of events which resulted in February 1917. Not least the major losses, the food shortages, the loss of confidence in the regime etc etc. Not really controversial, given similar circumstances had helped produce the revolution of 1905 too. But I'm sure one could find some historians who wouldn't consider the social stresses important.

Making Rasputin some sort of evil mastermind which then led to the better part of a century of official atheism is the stuff of legends. What need is there for Rasputin when 'normal' society produces a man like Pobedonostsev, who really did have power and influence to help shape the context of a repressive society which led to revolution? The Orthodox church has a long history of state sanctioned repression of other religions. "Inciting religious discord" (the thing which the Russian courts have been using to class JWs as 'extremist') has an equally long history of being used against minority groups. It's not just JWs caught up in this, it's Baptists, it's Muslims etc. etc.

A good piece on the broader context and why this is worrying.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-should-embrace-its-religious-diversity-op-ed/526235.html

GodZoo

Saintbertholdt12 hours ago

Godzoo and Orphancrow, if you love freedom of speech you should reconsider your position.

What Orphan Crow said..

Freedom of speech? Absolutely.

Freedom to manipulate minds and suck good and decent and often vulnerable people into deceptive, manipulative, lying, brain poisoning dangerous cults? Certainly not.

fukitol

Funny how some apostates cry "it's a harmful cult, its a harmful cult " then defend that cults right to distribute cult material.

While freedom of expression is important, any ban on religious drivel and cult brainwashing material is completely laudable.

Barrold Bonds

Russia's government has gone completely bonkers and while some of you agree with what they did here its symptomatic of a ruler gone amok. They're doing shit like this all over the country and shutting down groups they don't like.

don't you all remember reading Fahrenheit 451 in high school?

Village Idiot

OnTheWayOut:

"So, while people will argue about whether that should be their right to distribute their crap, please try to understand that there is a governmental responsibility to regulate free speech."

I believe the line is crossed when the religious blather encourages people to kill others for their beliefs. This is an example (1:45 and 7:45 second mark.):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCYu6ZyQaAI&feature=player_detailpage

That's a big difference from the Watchtower murder fantasies.

konceptual99

There are two points here. One is about the rights around freedom of religion and expression versus the potentially greater priority of preventing people from needlessly being caught in a high control organisation.

The second is about the motivation of the Russian authorities.

I don't believe they have a clear, moral and reasonable argument as to why they wish to prevent WT publications from being distributed. They simply don't like it and are cracking down, just as they prevent members of the LGBT communities from driving for having a "mental illness" and just as they imply state acceptance of many forms of prejudice rather than encouraging an open and tolerant society. Russia, at a state level, is culturally backward and pretty crappy place to be if you don't confirm to the norms.

Just because the state might be doing something with some benefits as far as the distribution of WTS material is concerned it does not mean we should be patting this racist, homophobic and oppressive regime on the back.

This probably has something to do with the new bill in Russia, stating that all foreign agents risk loosing their right to run media.

The bill does not take away people's right to religious assembly nor their freedom of speech, they just cannot run mass media in order to do so...

It is not a human nor religious right to run a religious mass media with loosely defined political messages...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-foreign-agents-risk-losing-right-to-run-media/528308.html

Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia