When a person swears on the bible in Australian law and that person does not tell the truth the understanding is that the punishments of the last judgement will come on that person.
That was explained to me by a lawyer
Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?
by The Searcher 41 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Incognito
At 48:25 of Part One, Jackson made this statement "Even in ancient times God did not have in mind for children to be beaten up in a bad way."
As WT and JWs often rely on technicalities, stating 'beaten up' could be considered differently than corporal punishment, while intended to mislead. Likewise the 'in a bad way' statement.
The WT promote shunning as a loving provision, not the harsh, unloving, cruel action as we now see it to be. The use of physical discipline is considered as good for the child, not as a bad action.
As each court witness must swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, any untruth or misleading testimony, regardless of reason, would be considered by the court to be perjury.
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defender of truth
Well the quotes and links in my last post (credit to Searcher for the idea), clearly show that physical punishment is condoned..
Here's another one from 2001:
God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...
Mind you, looking back at the transcript, he actually said that the organisation leaves it to the parents to decide, but that they do not encourage physical discipline.
He states that they have said in the literature time and time again, that 'discipline' in this scripture is not referring to corporal punishment, it's talking about a mental discipline (verbal correction and instruction, in other words).
Pages 19/20, read it yourself:
Royal Commission Geoffrey Jackson Transcript pdfSo, would anyone be kind enough to bring together all these Watchtower quotes and Jackson's words into one post? (Emailing it to the Commission would be really good, if anyone has time).
Thanks, Searcher, good topic.
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defender of truth
4 For fear of being accused of abuse—physical, verbal, or emotional—some parents shy away from correcting their children. We need not harbour such fears. The word “discipline” as used in the Bible does not imply any kind of abuse or cruelty.
17. What lesson in parental correction is provided at Isaiah 28:26-29?
...Some children respond to just a glance from their parents, and nothing more is needed. Others require repeated reminders, while still others may need persuasion of a stronger kind.
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001722?q=physical+discipline&p=par#h=6On Discipline:
Dr. James Dobson wrote in The Strong-Willed Child (1978): “Corporal punishment in the hands of a loving parent is a teaching tool by which harmful behavior is inhibited.”
On the other hand, in an article adapted from the seventh edition of the popular book Baby and Child Care (1998), Dr. Benjamin Spock said: “Spanking teaches children that the larger, stronger person has the power to get his way, whether or not he is in the right.”
With regard to discipline, the Bible states: “The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.” (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment.
Proverbs 17:10 tells us: “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times.”
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006801?q=physical+discipline&p=par
God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001925
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The Searcher
Despite Mr. Jackson's repeated attempts at obfuscation throughout his testimony, his eventual answer to the question was 'No' - as the transcript shows!
Q. Does your church accept corporal punishment of children?
A. Our church accepts the family arrangement and expects that parents have the responsibility to discipline and raise their children.
Q. That doesn't answer my question. Do you accept corporal punishment?
A. I see. In our literature, I think you will see time and time again we've endeavored to explain that here "discipline" is referring to more a mental point of view, not corporal punishment.
Q. I am going to tell you, you are still not answering my question.
A. Oh, sorry.
Q. Do you accept corporal punishment?
A. No.
Q. You don't?
A. Not - not personally, no, and not as an organization - we don't encourage it.
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Illuminated
It seems for anyone who fears them, they have one answer. For anyone who does not fear them, the answer is changed.
My perception when he said he doesn't work in that department or doesn't have the answer (something along those lines), could it be he's actually telling the truth and that other people are running the cult?
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Oubliette
Searcher, thanks for sharing that excerpt from the transcript.
The evasiveness and the refusal to give a direct answer is very telling. It's pretty typical of all of the WT representatives throughout the RC hearings.
I'd love to ask any or all of them, "Why is it so hard for you to just give a straight answer? It seems like you're hiding something."
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Finkelstein
Those dam confused JWS leaders they never follow the bible's counsel in how to treat rebellious children.
Deuteronomy 21:18–21 expands on the law: ........
If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear. -
sparrowdown
Who knows what the puny human scum are doing with their children. We have enough problems getting the GB helpers to peel our grapes properly. -
SimonSays
Searcher: If you’re going to sabotage by attempting to misrepresent FACTS, I suggest you revise and consent your belligerence. TEACHING PROPER VALUES. When will you people learn. Get a life dude.
On Teaching Proper Values:
In a 1969 New York Times Magazine article, Dr. Bruno Bettelheim stressed that a child has the "right to form his own inner opinions, influenced not by [his parents'] authoritative [preaching], but only by his own direct experience with life." Almost 30 years later, though, Dr. Robert Coles, author of The Moral Intelligence of Children (1997), acknowledged: "Children very much need a sense of purpose and direction in life, a set of values" approved by their parents and other adults.
Proverbs 22:6 urges parents: "Train up a boy according to the way for him; even when he grows old he will not turn aside from it." The Hebrew word translated "train" also means "initiate" and here indicates the initiating of the first instruction of the infant. Parents are thus encouraged to start teaching their children proper values from infancy on. (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) What they learn during these formative years is likely to remain with them.
On Discipline:
Dr. James Dobson wrote in The Strong-Willed Child (1978): "Corporal punishment in the hands of a loving parent is a teaching tool by which harmful behavior is inhibited." On the other hand, in an article adapted from the seventh edition of the popular book Baby and Child Care (1998), Dr. Benjamin Spock said: "Spanking teaches children that the larger, stronger person has the power to get his way, whether or not he is in the right." OUTSIDE SOURCE, NOT THE WTS
With regard to discipline, the Bible states: "The rod and reproof are what give wisdom." (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment. Proverbs 17:10 tells us: "A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times." 99.9% of times JW Children get scolded.