by hannibal 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • hannibal

    Hello to all,
    After being on this site for about a month now,I have read many if not all "bashing" J/Ws for obvious reasons.I am starting to come to the conclusion that this religion I was raised in is just another religion.But to bring a "thread" of objectivity,i was wonder what you all thought of of the religous freedom j/ws have fought for.I'm reading a book now called 'judging jehovahs witnesses'.Some quotes:

    "I think the jehovahs witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legel problems of civil liberties"--Harlan Fiske Stone,u.s. supreme court

    "this marvelous and long-needed book illuminates how vital jehovahs witnesses have been in strengthening the fundamental constitutional rights of all americans"--Nat Hentoff,author of Living the bill of rights

    Ironically,as the book brings out,they laid the foundation of religious freedom by fight so hard in court in the 1930's and 40's.Yet leave little to no religous freedom with in its own religion.

    Any thoughts?

    If you cant change your mind r you sure you have one?

  • stephenw20

    "I think the jehovahs witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legel problems of civil liberties"--Harlan Fiske Stone,u.s. supreme court

    One could look at their fight for the civil liberties. but I ask the motivation for the fight.

    if the motivation was fredeom of religion, for all men, then why do they fight for such a freedom and then Judge all others that exercise this freedom as wrong.....Not freedom for all men but freedom according to their view....

    I agree there is bashing here...I have dome some myself...but I have to say , when someone in a court of law expounds to the words of ....those who dont uphold the beleifs as a member of the JWS is subject to d/f and death...I see it not as a bash but as survival........

    The SWORD of the law as has been mentioned cuts both ways.....

  • Norm

    The Watchtower Society and the average Jehovah's Witnesses haven’t got a clue about what freedom is. The January 8. 1999, issue of the Awake! Magazine discusses this theme. Looking through it (the Norwegian issue) it really amazes me that the average Jehovah's Witness can actually read this and not notice the glaring inconstancy. On page 3 there is a big quote of article 18 in the Declaration of Human Rights:

    “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

    Already by reading this, their alarm clocks should go off. I mean, what happens if a Jehovah's Witness try to exercise his/hers alleged “freedom” to join some other church? Of course we all know the answer to that question. The article makes some remarks about Israel, where someone has suggested a law that ban writings that encourage people to change their religion.
    The magazine, very correctly state that such a law would be extremely easy to misuse. Very true, but again, what’s the Watchtower Society own attitude towards Jehovah's Witnesses who change religion? Why is it that the Watchtower Society wants exclusive rights in this matter? Everyone should be granted the “right” to convert to be a Jehovah's Witness, but from that day, the right to convert again is gone forever? What kind of reasoning is that?

    The rest of the articles are a long lamentation about “intolerance” scattered with snide remarks about France. The article does of course not bother to mention that France has not lifted a finger to interfere with their religious activities. It is also quite amusing to notice how heavily the Awake rely on “The Beast”. The article is simply festered with quotes from various UN publications. Brooklyn is forever appealing to various nations and groups to respect the rules of “The Beast”. The Watchtower Society is really relying on the protection provided by “The Beast”. On page 11 there is a very interesting subsection, under the heading: “The best way to fight intolerance”. Among other things it says that tolerance includes disagreement, and that people can of course be convinced that another persons religious beliefs are totally wrong, but as long as such viewpoints are presented correctly, they can’t be said to be intolerant. It is only when people spread lies about other religions that it can be called intolerance. The article also very correctly point out that the ultimate expression of intolerance is when people get killed because of their faith.

    Again it is amazing that people who belong to an organization who in no uncertain terms declare all religions but their own, false, and preach violent slaughter of 6 billion non Witnesses “any day now”, apparently do not consider themselves intolerant! Killing 99,9% of mankind only because they don’t “accept” Brooklyn’s insane calculations about 1914, seem to be a fully legitimate reason for wiping them out. What an illuminating example of the ultimate intolerance?

    But on page 13, it really takes off, as the Awake! starts to talk about, “Rights without obligations”. Wow, if that isn’t interesting, then I don’t know what is. Does it really mean that Brooklyn might one day understand that human rights isn’t just something they demand for their two bit Watchtower organization, but that they should also actually grant these rights to the average Jehovah's Witness as well? Naah, of course not, that would be too much.


  • TR

    Of course the WTS fought soley for selfish reasons. They weren't thinking about how persecuted Catholics or Lutherans were. They were taking care of their own ass, period. As a biproduct, they may have made it harder to hammer religions that mistreat their own. Just a guess.


  • expatbrit

    Agree completely with the previous replies.

    The WT views the idea of religious tolerance simply as another tool to be used in furthering their own ends.



  • JanH

    Other groups that have also done a lot of good for American civil liberties are the Ku Klux Klan and the Hell's Angels. All have won important freedom-of-expression court cases.

    I guess this puts the JW court victories in some perspective.

    - Jan
    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate." - Occam

  • hippikon

    Ironic isn't it. Two laws one for insiders and one for outsiders.

    My wife is Catholic. I took her to her church services the other week an I could see the looks of disgust from the elders. My comment was "I practice freedom of religion and freedom of speech in my house." (My wife is very pleased actualy - I bought her a birthday present and cake for the first time the other day).

    Even the WTS encourages freedom of speech in the family so why not in the Congrgation. Afer all its one big happy family isn't it?

    "But it does move"

  • AlanF

    Jehovah's Witness leaders are no more interested in freedom of religion than the Afghani Taliban is. They're interested only in using resources and ideas and laws to allow them to freely practice their religion -- which includes completely restricting the religious freedom of their followers.


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