by Marvin Shilmer 81 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?
And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:
my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".
All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.
Marvin - this thought just came to me: I wonder how Jackson himself would respond to your reference if he was presiding over your judicial committee?
I don't see how he could dismiss or disagree with his own words, but of course in a star-chamber session those with the power can do whatever they want, unfortunately with near impunity. Regardless, my point is that with his works Jackson in effect granted a means to say what a lot of us have always said: the Governing Body thinks itself the "faithful slave" and to think this means the Governing Body is the sole spokesperson for God is presumptuous. When confronted with this response, and the fact that a current GB members has publicly endorsed the notion, even a hard-nosed Society Man will have a hard time asking you to speculate further on the matter or, worse, convict you of apostasy for repeating something a GB member already said and said publicly.
And maybe this is irrelevant to the discussion but it still tends to put things in perspective:
my dad used to always say "it's not going to make any difference a hundred years from now".
All things must pass. JWs are like the Millerites... and they will fizzle out too.
That's all well, good and true. But my recommendation is for those living here and now who want to say what Jackson said to those who ask. Because Jackson said it then it puts legs on the response.
If they represent God then what does this tell us God is like. He is out of touch more interested in money than people. He lacks compassion happy to use his followers to progress his personal ambition. He is all about control ensuring that people have no natural affection and put faceless people above family.
This is not the God other people have said Christianity is all about or what I think a God should be. So as a result I cannot believe that the GB could possibly be Gods representative on Earth. They are their own God so I rejected them for the hypocritical, blasphemous, greedy and arrogant men they are.
Jackson was very careful with his words and y’all are readings them the way you want to and not the way they were actually spoken.
He made it clear that he and the other 6 members of the GB do believe and claim to be ‘the faithful slave’ of the verses in Matt…and in regards to being asked if the GB see themselves as be God’s spokespeople on earth…he said it would be presumptuous to claim that they believe that they are the only ones.
He is not saying that the GB does not feel that they are God’s spokespeople on earth…he’s clear that they (the GB) feel they are and the word ‘presumptuous’ is not used in regards with him claiming that the GB are God’s spokespeople on earth and the word ‘presumptuous’ is not used in regards to him making the claim that they (the GB) are ‘the faithful slave’…. ‘Presumptuous’ is used in regards to saying that they (the GB) are not the ONLY ones that God is using as spokespeople on earth…meaning that elders, etc…and r&f are also God’s spokespeople on earth when it comes to talking about the bible to others.
Something that I found interesting is oppostate writing this:
Guardians Of Doctrine (G.O.D.)
GJ did say that the GB were 'Guardians Of Doctrine'
It is too bad that Mr Stewart did not follow up with Jackson's comment. I was disturbed by Jackson's comment - Now after reading, even more so.
NO! we are each and idividual the Faithful slave.....this is just a parable. nothing more, nothing less.
That is correct,
nevertheless according to those verses there still is a ‘slave class’ that is
doing the feeding until that future time arrives, which the GB claim to be that
‘slave class’ presently.
Here is a better
view of how to understand those verses and also on what is truly the case of being
‘presumptuous’:
The ‘faithful slave/s’ are only distinguished to be so when the master comes to settle accounts with his slaves. Before such time they are all just considered to be ‘slaves’ carrying out the work of their ‘master’. At no time prior to the master coming to settle accounts with his slaves should the slaves themselves refer to themselves as being ‘faithful slaves’ (That’s for the master to determine when he arrives.) but to the contrary, the slaves are said to say of themselves that they “are good-for-nothing slaves” during the time they are carrying out their assigned work.
Please consider the following:
[Luke 17:10 So YOU, also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU, say, ‘We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.’”]
[Matthew 25:14 “For it is just as when a man, about to travel abroad, summoned slaves of his and committed to them his belongings.
19 “After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20So the one that had received five talents came forward and brought five additional talents, saying, ‘Master, you committed five talents to me; see, I gained five talents more.’
21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’
22 Next the one that had received the two talents came forward and said, ‘Master, you committed to me two talents; see, I gained two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’
24 “Finally the one that had received the one talent came forward and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be an exacting man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25So I grew afraid and went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ 26In reply his master said to him, ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow?]
As can be seen is that it is not determined as to the faithfulness or not of the slaves until the master arrives. It is very presumptuous for any so-called slaves to make the claim of themselves as already being ‘the faithful slaves’ before the master has even arrived.
The master does not originally appoint or give the slaves their assigned work based on having judged them for their faithfulness. The master actually judges the slaves when he arrives based upon how the salves handled the assigned work…the master will then determine as to the faithfulness of the salves. It is at that point that the salves will be judged as to being faithful or not and will be appointed over all the master’s belongings/over many things, due to them being found faithful over few things/assigned work/given food at the proper time to domestics.
The following in verse 45 is not stating that an already found ‘faithful slave’ is who is first appointed. It is asking the question of whom the ‘faithful slave’ is/or will end up being. Verse 46 answers the question stating that when the master arrives and finds 'the slave' faithfully doing his assigned work then that slave will be appointed over all the master’s belongings/over many things.
[Matthew 24:45“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.]
Compare with Matthew 25:14-26 again. No talents were given to faithful slaves, nor given to wicked sluggish/evil slaves, the talents were given to “slaves” whom based on what they did with those talents were judged to be found ‘good and faithful’ or ‘wicked and sluggish’ and it is those slaves that were found to be ‘good and faithful’ that will be appointed over many things/over the master’s belongings.
Not just, "No," but HELL NO!
