A Little Challenge From Da Chat Room

by Farkel 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • Farkel

    Hi, all. With permission from the writer known as "f451" currently having fun in the chat room, I have posted this assertion in here for general discussion:

    : The significane is this. Christ returned in 1914. We predicted he would. He chose us in 1918. If he didn't return in 1914, he didn't choose us in 1918, and we're not his chosen organisation

    It is obvious that the writer f451 is a loyal JW. Please give his arguments some respect as his assertions are sincere. I will refrain from the initial round of debates because, basically, I'm a jerk and would trash them in a most ignoble way! :)

    The logic of his assertions are er, rather interesting.


  • logical

    This is pasted from an older post by myself.

    Daniel 12:4,9 reads:

    And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end"

    For about 40 years, the date of 1914 was pre-announced by C.T. Russell, as the mark of the "time of the end". Information, which he had worked out using prophecies in Daniel, Nebuchadnezzars dream of the tree. (Daniel 4:16). The following quote from the Watch Tower publication, the 1975 Yearbook Page 37:

    Very noteworthy was the striking accuracy with which that book pointed to the end of the Gentile Times, "the appointed times of the nations." (Luke 21:24) It showed (on pages 83 and 189) that this 2,520-year period, during which Gentile or non-Jewish nations would rule the earth without interference by any kingdom of God, began with the Babylonian overthrow of the kingdom of Judah in the late seventh century B.C.E. and would end in 1914 C.E. Even earlier, however, C. T. Russell wrote an article entitled "Gentile Times: When Do They End?" It was published in the Bible Examiner of October 1876, and therein Russell said: "The seven times will end in A.D. 1914." He had correctly linked the Gentile Times with the "seven times" mentioned in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 4:16, 23, 25, 32) True to such calculations, 1914 did mark the end of those times and the birth of God's kingdom in heaven with Christ Jesus as king. Just think of it! Jehovah granted his people that knowledge nearly four decades before those times expired.

    Did Jehovah really grant this knowledge nearly 40 years in advance? Does the Bible lie? Daniel 12:4 and 12:9 both state the book of Daniel is kept secret and sealed until the time of the end, not before. So, would Jehovah actually GO BACK on His word?

    Another quote from the same yearbook, Page 75:

    "Rev. Charles T. Russell is the man who has been propounding this interpretation of the Scriptures since 1874. . . . 'In view of this strong Bible evidence,' Rev. Russell wrote in 1889, 'we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God will be accomplished by the end of A.D 1914.'

    Also, Luke 17:20-21 show that there would be NO PRE-ANNOUNCEMENT of the Kingdom of God, and there would be no big event, sign etc to mark its announcement:

    But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying. 'See here!' or, 'There!' For, look! The kingdom of God is in your midst*"
    * or "is among you"

    Quotes to the contrary from the 1975 Yearbook, Pages 74-76, as well as the above quote:

    But disappointments about going to heaven in 1914 really were very minor, compared with the great expectations realized in connection with that year. During the first six months of 1914, nothing happened to the Gentile nations, though the Bible Students long had pointed out that the Gentile Times would expire in that year

    A typical press reaction of the time appeared in The World, then a leading New York city newspaper. Its Sunday magazine section of August 30, 1914, contained the article "End of All Kingdoms in 1914." There it was stated, in part:
    "The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the 'International Bible Students,' best known as 'Millennial Dawners,' have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. 'Look out for 1914!' has been the cry of the hundreds of travelling evangelists who, representing this strange creed, have gone up and down the country enunciating the doctrine that 'the Kingdom of God is at hand.' . . .

    True, the Bible Students were not 'taken home' to heaven in October 1914. But the 2,520-year-long Gentile Times then ended. And, as Jehovah's servants later realized more fully, they had plenty of work to do after that time right here on earth in preaching the good news of God's established kingdom. Evidently many would yet respond favorably to Bible truth. Regarding this, Russell wrote in The Watch Tower of February 15, 1915: "There are certain indications that the Lord has a great work for all His people, His watching saints, at the present time. . . . There are some of the Lord's children who seem possessed with the idea that 'the door is shut,' and that there is no further opportunity for service. So they become indolent in regard to the Lord's work. We should lose no time dreaming that the door is shut! There are people who are seeking the Truth-people who are sitting in darkness. There never was a time like the present. Never have so many people been ready to hear the good Message. In all the forty years of Harvest there have not been such opportunities to proclaim the Truth as now present themselves. The great war and the ominous signs of the times are waking people up, and many are now inquiring. So the Lord's people should be very diligent, doing with their might what their hands find to do."



  • joelbear

    Debates make me nervous. I am happy to simply allow time to melt 1914 into the oblivion of the past.

    So let it be written, So let it be done.


  • Farkel

    "So let it be written, So let it be done."

    Yul Brynner, 1956

    "The Ten Commandments" Starring Charleton Heston, (who boycotted the movie for 2 years until they finally convinced him that the Israelites did not actually have GUNS 3,000 years ago.)

    Edward G. Robinson, Debra Paget, John Derek and 25,000 cheaply paid and cheaply acted extras, Produced by Seasill Bee Demille. Won "Most Hokey Bible Movie of the Year or ANY year (for that matter)" in 1956.


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