Who aren't the hard nuts?

by Nathan 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Nathan
    Nathan

    Most people I know basically believe that JWs are unconvertible from their faith. This, I believe, comes from their dissappointments and frustrations at being able to convince JWs to convert, or even just to leave.

    I work in the counselling field and we have a similar problem with 'difficult' clients who also don't seem to respond to anything. These clients also lead counsellors to become cynical as to these clients character, their ability, their 'true' motivation, or whatever meaning they can attach to the non-responding part. (Actually I think the JWs also talk about those who are resistant to the Truth). In counselling, when the counsellor looses hope and belief that the person can change is a high predictor that they will not be able to help this person any further. Cynicism lends itself to despair. Where there is hope, there is possibility.

    A modern philosophy in counselling is to stop focussing on the non-change parts and focus on the parts that do change and ask "What works that seem to help these people that do change?" - and do more of it. What is it that works in successful therapy? When this is answered, the advice is "do more of it."

    I know from the ex-JWs out there that there are many who have actually left the WT. Some of these people would have been labelled "hard nuts to crack" and "impossible" by those who at one time tried to persuade them but without success. Yet, they are out now.

    I would be most interested in finding out the common factors of what helped people towards making a decision to leave, and actually leaving the WT. What role did others have in this? What might have assisted this? What things were obstacles or hinderances? How were these overcome? What role did the 'outsider' (that is person trying win over the JW) have in this? What were the personal qualities of the 'outsider'? What were some of the signs to an outsider that a JW is having doubts, and how can this knowledge maximise our effectiveness in bringing these up in a manner that it is 'safe' enough for the JW to discuss or consider? For those who have helped a JW out, what are the factors that you believed 'worked' with you? If someone was involved in helping you out, What did they do that was helpful? What things seemed to help the JW open his mind and what things seem to trigger it shut. I can't answer these because I have not been instrumental, to my knowledge, in leading someone out, neither am I an ex-JW.

    I imagine that ex-JWs on this board might be able to give clues as to this. Hopefully I might be able to use some of the ideas of what was most helpful, to translate them into my contacts with a JW couple in their next visit.

    Will be looking forward to your feedback.

    Regards

    Nathan

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4609/JW/

  • Ed
    Ed

    I was born and raised in the organization, and made the decision to leave simply because I came to realize that they were really not that much different from the other religious groups that they vilify on a regular basis. They expect everone else to closely examine their own religion and instantly discard it if they find the slightest trace of questionable conduct or inaccurate teachings. But they are unwilling to apply those same rules to their own faith.

    Immoral conduct? "Wait on Jehovah, he will sort it out."

    Inaccurate teachings? "The light gets brighter."

    Traditions practiced by other religions are "not authorized by the Bible", whereas traditions practiced by JWs are "not prohibited by the Bible". And so on. Different sets of rules for themselves and everyone else. Eventually I just ran out of reasons to think they really were so different or had any special divine authority. So I followed the advice they were expecting everyone else to follow, and left.

    But I really don't think there's any point trying to convert JWs anyway. If that's the lifestyle they have chosen, and they are happy with it, then it's not really a problem that they need to be "helped" with. It has to be their own decision. Besides, if they sense that you are trying to help ("mislead") them, they will run very very quickly in the opposite direction.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Hey Ed!

    Welcome to the forum!! Couldn't agree more with your comments...........

    Which part of the Great Southland do you hale from?

    The Pope

  • rem
    rem

    I think that most people leave because they are ready to leave or are already disillusioned in some way. No one came and tried to get me out. If they did, I probably would have resisted. But I could see that things weren't right on my own and I allowed myself to do the research. I don't know how much success there is in trying to get people out 'before their time' or before they are ready to see beyond the Watchtower.

    I helped most of my family get out, but I think they were already in a questioning mindset before I presented my research to them. My father was not in a questioning mindset, and he didn't leave the religion. I'm not sure if this is typical, but it's just my experience.

    rem

    Edited by - rem on 16 December 2002 19:50:40

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Dr. Peck's "stages" we go through which is talked about in his second book, Further Along the Road Less Traveled, is the best explanation I have seen. The JWs are very much at stage two

    Edited by - thichi on 16 December 2002 20:2:15

    Edited by - thichi on 17 December 2002 11:17:52

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Welcome Nathan & Ed

    I work in the counselling field

    Which department do you work in Nathan? i.e Person Centered, Congruence,Psychodynamic..?

    I would be most interested in finding out the common factors of what helped people towards making a decision to leave, and actually leaving the WT

    I think for a lot of us it was an environmental factor, no climate for growth, surpression of personality leading to depression etc.

    What things were obstacles or hinderances? How were these overcome? What role did the 'outsider' (that is person trying win over the JW) have in this?

    Obstacles/hinderances: Loyalty. Thinking that there was no where else to go. Fear of the unknown. Believing God and the Watchtower were inseperable. Believing we would lose Gods protective barrier and bring death on our family (Like Job) if we left.

    Overcome: By one hell of a deprogramming battle. but mainly by accepting personal responsibilty and realising that I was personally responsible for allowing the WT to decieve me.

    Outsiders: Could empathise with the trauma were as JWs could only critisise and run to the elders if doubts were expressed. Outsiders could highlight the inconsistences in my JW think pattern. Unconditional in accepting me as a JW. They demonstrated by actions that there was life outside though I still viewed them with DEEP suspicion.

    Thats in a nut shell.

    Brummie

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I think the majority of those that leave are "raised in the truth" and thus had not freely made an informed choice to be a JW without coersion.

    I also think many of those that leave are "free thinkers" that don't believe it is wrong to ask questions and seek answers. I don't think these people follow the crowd as much and actually care about what they believe and want to know why they believe what they do. They are uncomfortable being told what to believe and they are curious about the "forbidden" and desire to find out for themselves "why".

    I think most of the factors in determining whether someone leaves this religion or stays are with the individual and not with the one trying to persuade. If I could offer advice to anyone trying to persuade someone to think outside the box, I would suggest them to be patient and subtle. Introduce small doubts by subtle questions and give them time to think about things. Leave them alone and don't bring these subjects up unless they do. Resist the hard sell.

    Path

  • Ed
    Ed
    Hey Ed!

    Welcome to the forum!! Couldn't agree more with your comments...........

    Thanks. I've been reading the posts on this site for a while now. It's fascinating to read about the experiences of others who've been through similar things. Always nice to know you're not alone.

    Which part of the Great Southland do you hale from?

    The Pope

    I'm in Brisbane (Qld).
  • larc
    larc

    Ed, I agree with those who say that people won't accept advice to leave until they are ready to leave. I think the same priciple applies in your field. Your clients won't change until they are ready to change. If they came to you of their own volition then the prognosis is good. If they came to you under duress, either by an agry spouse or by court order, they will be more resistant to change.

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