by Vivamus 4 Replies latest jw friends
Outbackaussie, you wrote this:
That is so right, pettygrudger, I remember those feelings of pain when a friend was DA'd. I was devastated at the thought she was "lost". When the rules changed and you could talk to DA'd people, I went and visited her, she had moved on from her WT life but it was good to talk to her. Now I am happy for her to have found the truth about The Truth.
Is that true?? Do you remember in what Wt it was?
Thanx.
Viv, I have been looking back, I am sure I will find it. It was '88/89.
I found the entry in my diary LOL on 24th Oct 1988 I wrote "Can talk to disassociated ones now, I spoke to Glenn". I vaguely recall the talk so there must have been an article around that time with more...who ever has a good library might be able to look it up.
Edited by - outbackaussie on 30 November 2002 5:54:48
In 1988, there was an article clarifying what was the difference between persons who had studied, and left the JWs, and people who got baptised and then left. Until then, we treated non-baptised-but-studied people as disfellowshipped if they left the JWs, particularly if they had been coming to meetings and field service. The WT said that we could still associate with these ones, because they hadn't gotten baptised, and thus were neither here nor there. Whereas, people who were baptised had made a stand for "the Truth" yet left, so they were to be shunned.
Unbaptized publishers or approved associates
who committed DFing offenses were considered disassociated by the congregation and shunned by the congregation. Then "new light" came and they were not "disassociated" by the congregation. Only baptized individuals could be considered disassociated and the individual had to make the decision to disassociate themselves.The 1983 Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry book says on page 149 in regard to nonbaptized associates who are wrongdoers, "The congregation will then view the wrongdoer as they would view one who has been disfellowshipped."
Note the "adjustment" in the following material. I am assuming that something major in the legal area forced the WTS to make this change just as they changed the baptism questions in 1985.
*** w88 11/15 19 Helping Others to Worship God (ftn) ***
16
Occasionally, an unbaptized publisher who is a wrongdoer will not respond to loving assistance. Or an unbaptized publisher may determine that he does not want to continue progressing toward baptism, and he informs the elders that he does not want to be recognized as a publisher. What is to be done? Disfellowshipping action is not taken regarding such ones who actually have not become approved by God. The arrangement of disfellowshipping unrepentant wrongdoers applies to those called brothers, to baptized ones. (1 Corinthians 5:11) Does this mean, though, that the wrongdoing is ignored? No.17
The elders are responsible to shepherd the flock of God in their care. (1 Peter 5:2) If two elders offering help determine that an unbaptized wrongdoer is unrepentant and unqualified to be a publisher, they will inform the individual. Or if some unbaptized one tells the elders that he no longer wishes to be recognized as a publisher, they will accept his decision. In either case, it is appropriate for the Congregation Service Committee to have a simple announcement made at an appropriate time, saying " . . . is no longer a publisher of the good news."18
How will Witnesses thereafter view the person? Well, at an earlier point he was an unbeliever attending meetings. Then he both wanted to be and qualified to be a publisher of the good news. This is no longer the case, so he again is a person of the world. The Bible does not require that Witnesses avoid speaking with him, for he is not disfellowshipped. Still, Christians will exercise caution with regard to such a person of the world who is not worshiping Jehovah, even as Israelites did regarding uncircumcised alien settlers. This caution helps to protect the congregation from any "little leaven," or corrupting element. (1 Corinthians 5:6) If at some later time he expresses a genuine desire for a Bible study to be held with him, and this seems in order to the elders, perhaps it will help him come to appreciate again what a privilege it is to worship Jehovah with His people.Psalm 100.*** w89 2/15 29 Questions From Readers ***
Yes, it does. The Watchtower of November 15, 1988, showed why it is Scriptural to adjust our view of an unbaptized person who shares in the public ministry with Jehovahs Witnesses. Formerly, such a person was termed an "approved associate." If he thereafter unrepentantly broke Gods laws, the congregation was alerted, and the members would then avoid association and conversation with him.
As the recent material showed, the Bible requires that such disciplinary action be taken in the case of baptized persons who are unrepentant wrongdoers. (1 Corinthians 5:11-13; 2 John 9-11) Yet, the accountability of an unbaptized person who pursues wrongdoing is not the same as that of one who is baptized. (Luke 12:48) He has not been baptized and thus has not become approved in Gods sight, so disfellowshipping is not appropriate in his case. Basically, he is now a worldly person and can be dealt with accordingly.
What, then, of one who was formerly termed an "approved associate" but who is no longer qualified for the public ministry because of his wrong course? Since he is not disfellowshipped, he should be treated as the person of the world that he is. Of course, the November 15 Watchtower advised on page 19 that due caution must be exercised by loyal Christians. These realize that the unbaptized person may well have shared in wrongdoing despite his having knowledge of Gods requirements. Mature Christians must be careful about socializing with such an individual. If questions arise as to the extent of contact that may be had with him, most of these can be resolved by following godly counsel. We can reflect on counsel such as that found at 1 Corinthians 15:33 and Proverbs 13:20 and ask ourselves: What association would I properly have with a person of the world who is not living by Christian standards? If the elders see that a worldly person of this sort poses any threat, they can privately offer warning counsel to those in the congregation who seem to be endangered.
In time, an unbaptized person who had been an "approved associate" may give reasonable evidence of repentance, and he may desire to have a Bible study again. (Acts 26:20) He may speak to the elders of the congregation where he now attends, who, if it seems advisable, will arrange for him to have a Bible study. This will apply also if in the future someone is disqualified as an unbaptized publisher and later shows repentance. Usually, he ought to speak to the two elders who dealt with his wrongdoing or the two others whom the body of elders chose to review the matter if he requested that.
Appropriately, The Watchtower explained that it is somewhat different in the case of parents caring for minor children in the homethose legally dependent minors for whom they are responsible to provide material support. (Ephesians 6:1-4) The Scriptures lay on the parents the obligation to instruct and guide their children. So the parents (or believing parent) may choose to conduct a private Bible study with the erring minor or to include him in the familys program of Bible study and discussion.
While the recent Watchtower material calls for adjustment in our thinking and dealings, it is done in line with the Scriptures that are beneficial "for disciplining in righteousness."2 Timothy 3:16, 17.
*** w88 11/15 17 Helping Others to Worship God ***
Thank you! Aren't diaries great Outbackaussie? Lol
Blondie, thanx for posting that.
